When your horse is holding you back....

sedonasilver · Advanced

When your horse is holding you back....

Barbara F · Grand Prix

Sedona, I feel for you. What a difficult fork in the road.

I have been there and I now realize that it is much kinder for you to sell your horse to someone who will be a better match at this stage, than to ask him to do something he simply is not made to do.

Partnered with a rider who has different and more suitable goals, your horse will be within his comfort and ability zone and he will be loved for all the joy he can bring to his next partner.

There will be lots of tears, but just make sure he goes to someone you really like.

Keep us informed about how it goes!

MagsNMe · Advanced

What about leasing him to a suitable rider? This takes the financial burden off, while you keep control of the direction of his life.

Nikki Salo · Grand Prix

Sedonasilver, I understand your pain as well! This is a hard choice, which comes with A LOT of tears and heartache, but as Barb mentioned, it is the kind thing to do for your horse. Find him a lovely home where the rider and your boy compliment each other, he'll feel comfortable in his new life and this will translate to a happy horse!

Keep a few things that are his, like his halter, or a horseshoe (if he wears shoes), you can always look back on them and think of all the great times you've had together, all of the things he has taught you, and know that he is happy in his new job.

Keep us updated! aww

Here is the horseshoe that I have from my first horse :)

NaturallyUnbridled · Well Schooled

MagsNMe wrote:

What about leasing him to a suitable rider? This takes the financial burden off, while you keep control of the direction of his life.

If this is an affordable option for you, I love it!

sedonasilver · Advanced

Thanks guys :( Its very hard - his advert went up a few nights ago through my coach so hopefully we will be able to find someone he will be suited to.

I did think about the leasing option but its really not feasible at this stage as I would put myself in a fair bit of debt buying this new horse without the money from Lorenzo's sale. But thanks for the suggestion MagsNme :) You never know - something could come up?

Nikki, that is a beautiful idea - I will definately do something like that :D

Nikki Salo · Grand Prix

I bet your coach has a lot of great contacts that may be interested in giving your boy a wonderful new home, that is something to look forward to aww

Barbara F · Grand Prix

Hi Sedona,
Keep us updated. We are all rooting for a great home for your boy!

Jazz · Yearling

Good luck in finding a new home for him. I understand the pain of letting go. :(

barnfrog · Advanced

Unless the horse is aged, has lameness problems, or if the rider has national/international aspirations rarely is the horse holding the rider back. Almost all horses can do wtc/lateral work/piaffe, the rider needs to understand and work on this process. Almost every top rider I know 'made their own' horses. (PS I like the horse in the op's pix).

dbliron · Advanced

Hi, Lauren:

I've been trying to sort out in my mind how to say what I think needs to be said, without raining on your parade. Barnfrog has taken the bull by the horns, for which I'm grateful, so here I am sticking my oar in...

In my experience, which is considerable, as a coach and as a trainer, I have to say that 99 times out of 100 it's the rider holding the horse back, not the other way around. The rider's insufficiencies are usually the root of the failure to advance.

I am particularly surprised at the advice you have been given with regard to Lorenzo, as a large part of Phillipe Karl's claim to fame is that he can produce haute ecole work with horses of all shapes and sizes, and varying antecedents. It's also very odd to me that you are being advised to purchase a horse with draft blood as a dressage prospect (my apologies to Prospect). There are some horses with draft blook who are very good at upper level dressage work, but overall this is the exception, rather than the rule. The same can be said for the Arabian blood in this new horse. Don't get me wrong, I rode Arabians for years, still train them, and love them, but most of them are not physically suited to the demands of upper level dressage. None of this means that your new prospect is definitely unsuitable - he may very well be the exception. What I'm trying to say is that Lorenzo is quite likely completely suitable, and I think you need to evaluate the situation, your current horse, and the advice you've received thus far.

I have seen many many horses who've been pronounced "unsuitable" for dressage by one trainer or another go on to do extremely well under other riders. I think you should perhaps be looking at what you need to learn, rather than at Lorenzo, for the right answers...I currently have an Adult Amateur, on an Arabian Trakehner cross, who was told that her horse would never be a successful dressage horse, and that she herself would never ride him. Last fall she finished the horse's Legion of Merit in dressage, as his trainer and his rider. I am immensely proud of both of them, and of what got them there, which was the owner/rider's faith in her horse and in herself, and her drive to learn.

I hope you take this in the spirit in which it is meant, Lauren. I have seen in you a real desire to learn and educate yourself, and do the best thing by your horse, and this post is only made in hopes of helping you to make the best decision for yourself and for Lorenzo.

sedonasilver · Advanced

Hi again :)

Thank you both for your astute, and thoughtful, observations. I have no doubt that Lorenzo has the abilty to eventually do what it is asked of him in regards to advanced dressage movements with enough time and practice put it however it doesnt come completely naturally to him, its not something he particularly enjoys at the moment and he needs a lot of work to build up strength.

As for PK's claim to fame - I have seen first hand, PK riding a horse with pitiful conformation, lack luster movement and obvious difficulties with even simple movements like shoulder-in - he made this horse look like it was ready to ride an advanced level test after only 2 rides. I have no doubt that the riders knowledge and skills play a HUGE/vast majority part in how quickly the horse progresses but unfortunately I havent had that kind of training yet so I need to set myself up to achieve the best result as quickly as possible. I know it sounds like I'm taking short cuts, but it is where I need to be right now.

I need a horse where this kind of work comes naturally, works from behind, has a lot of power, and has natural carriage. Lorenzo could have all of this - with a lot of work and time - but I have thought long and hard about my situation, and Lorenzo's, and I think the best thing to do is to let him go to a nice loving home with someone who wishes to take him to Adult Riders, or low level eventing which is something that he loves. I hate to think that I am giving up on him but I honestly feel that this is the right thing to do.

I do have some concerns about the strength of his hindquarters also, which just quietly I am worried may affect his soundness as time progresses if too much is asked of him too quickly. I do worry that I will look back and regret letting him go, but I would regret it even more if I am without a horse to train, on and off for several months due to soundness issues, plus putting Lorenzo through the discomfort doesnt sit well with me, purely for the sake of advancing my own skills.

As for my new horse, I thought the same thing re: the draft blood, but I honestly feel he's an exception. I have had several opinions from various noted horse-people all of which have commented on his lovely free flowing movement, conformation and that little extra 'sparkle'. Of course, they could all be completely wrong - and only time will tell - but its a risk I am willing to take at this time. He is quite 'andalusian-ey' (half andy x clyde/arab/paint) in his build (apart from his head unfortunately - you can see the clydie there) so I also feel reasonably confident there.

Anyway, I really do appreciate you both taking the time to clarify, and validate, your thoughts and I know you are advising with the best intentions at heart. It is definately food for thought, and something I will discuss with my coach again. I will keep everyone posted :)

-- Edited by sedonasilver on Tuesday 22nd of February 2011 08:53:11 PM

-- Edited by sedonasilver on Tuesday 22nd of February 2011 09:05:41 PM

barnfrog · Advanced

So I take it that you were in Canada for PK. His point is that correct aids and BALANCE is what advances horses. There is NO shortcutting that.

WHY do you want to achieve results as quickly as possible? Talk about problematic. Results come from equitation and thoughtful theoretically based methods. What is it in your horse's body that would not be better than a draft cross? What do you think that an eventing horse does worse than a dressage horse? Most horses would be FAR better off to jump. He appears to have a well put on quarter, and soundness in any horse is based upon proper use of exercises (and with draft crosses the straight hindlegs can appear to be very regular but do not stand up to collected canter work because they are bred to pull/push against the ground rather than for articulation. So talk about having to take time, drafts require that (I have worked with full drafts/half drafts/quarter drafts.

sedonasilver · Advanced

No, PK is running clinics and teacher training courses in Western Australia over the span of 5 years. Once a year with PK and twice a year with his swiss student Sylvia Stossel.

I need to achieve results as quickly as possible because I want to be able to get out there and start being competitive, and I have 3 years before I can apply for the teachers course, and this is the duration of my traineeship. I am not attempting to shortcut, just trying to put myself in a better position. I am relying on the advice of my coach - who else is there the rely on when you dont have years and years of experience behind you? I'm sorry but we dont all have a library of knowledge to fall back on. I am doing the best I can, and heading in the direction that my coach thinks is best. I would like a better quality horse to compete and advance on. I am looking to do big things, in hunter and dressage.

Lorenzo is weak in the hindquarters - I have been told this is because he has quite a long body, and he is displaying some unsoundness in his offhind quarter even with the aid of chiropracters and bowen therapists. I have been told this is a conformation issue, and very well may not withstand the demands I will be asking of him. This is maybe more apparent when watching him move. I have been taught my whole life to be wary of unsound horses, and that often there is little you can do to fix the problem, particularly in warmblood.

I'm not out to attempt to disprove anyones posts because I am the first person to admit that I am not knowledgable about a lot of areas of horsemanship but I am learning and we all have to start somewhere.

Cielo isnt straight legged, so evidently he is an exception to the rule. He is barely 1/8th clydie, as I mentioned above he is more so Andalusian (50%), with light, expressive movement, and power from behind.

-- Edited by sedonasilver on Wednesday 23rd of February 2011 01:34:34 AM

Michelle Synnot · Yearling

The title of this post should be 'When your horse is holding you back and you're on a budget'

I had the same issue.. a rescue TB with bone chips that had been left so long he had arthritic changes in his joints.. rehomed him to a school horse barn where he happily gets fussed over until his joints get so bad they put him down.. an inevitable event unfortunately.. (thanks unethical flat racing douche bags)..

Found another gelding, seemed great.. turned out to have HORRIBLE anxiety and avery fragile mind. We take it so slow with him sometimes I think we might as well be going backwards, really frustrating when jumpers is your thing. He's coming along though, better as the years go by.

I thought as I was waiting for my nervous nellie to mellow out with age, I would make a horse from scratch as my meager social worker salary is certainly not enough to fly to Europe to purchase a new one..

I had a friend with a herd of various types of mares. With her persmission we bred her TB mare to an Oldenburg gelding. I paid the vet bills, and kept the baby. It cost about 3000.00. Well worth it.

The baby is two now and he is the star of the barn... I still have my nervous nellie and I plan on leasing him out to alleviate the fincancial end of things so I can put extra cash into showing the kiddo.

Good luck with your endeavors.. the decision to sell is never an easy one.

biggrin

sedonasilver · Advanced

Hi everyone,

Just wanted to let you know that I have found a WONDERFUL home for Lorenzo, but not without dramas.

I had originally agreed to allow a woman to have a vet check done on him, at which he was found 100% sound but x-rays showed he had slight wearing on his centre knee joints on both front legs. The woman then proceeded to try and haggle my price down over $2000 which was just ridiculous. I am not an idiot - most horses will have some degree of wearing on their joints.

I took him off the market, spoke with my vet who completely disagreed with the other womans vets recommendation (which was high risk, dont buy), and have rehomed him with some friends who live in the hills, and have the equivilent of the Hilton, for horses!

He will only be used for trail riding and the odd schooling lesson and thats it. I wasnt even sad saying goodbye to him because I know he will be look after so well, and have a forever home alongside the couples two old crazy thoroughbred geldings.

Now to bring on my new boy...I feel a new post coming on!

Barnmouser Ash · Grand Prix

Hi Lauren!

I'm glad you stuck up for yourself in a dramatic situation. Some people would believe whatever the vet tells them and let that get to their heads regarding the value of their horse. Clearly Lorenzo isn't just some bone bag with messed up knees who is worth nothing - he's performed well for you and deserves the opportunity to be well cared for. Though he may not get his ideal life of low-level eventing competition and such, I'm sure any horse would be happy to just 'be a horse'. Kudos to you for getting a second opinion and going with the more comfortable option for you both. I hope we get updates on him periodically ;)

In regards to your new boy - I'm stoked to learn about your progress with him! :) Keep us updated!

Jennifer Lamm · Yearling

I think I'm holding my horse back.... Good luck with Lorenzo... I hope he finds a lovely new home. ")

MagsNMe · Advanced

A very interesting thread. Glad Lorenzo has a great home.

I hold my horse back daily, I know it, but, then again, she's not exactly an easy ride, so she holds herself back sometimes. Faith in your horse is an important thing, so good luck with the new guy!