How smart do you think horses are?

Barbara F · Grand Prix

How smart do you think horses are?

Barnmouser Ash · Grand Prix

This is a great question, Barb. I think "smartness" is a bit subjective in a sense, but I do believe that horses have an extremely high capacity to learn and understand things, as well as feel and relate. I know several studies have been done relating to horses and their "smartness" - I would love to learn the results of those compared to animals such as humans, dolphins, apes, etc as well as less intelligent animals like, say, fish or rabbits. I think in terms of subjective "smartness", horses can be extremely smart depending on the person measuring their smartness. Some horses (to us humans) seem plain dumb, but I'm willing to bet they're probably rather intelligent.

Anywho, great question! I'm interested to see what others think :)

justice · Grand Prix

I find them to be more defined by wisdom than actually "intelligent". They are definteily a very adaptable creature, knowing and accepting that which they cannot change.. given a fair chance. Wish *I* could adapt as well.... : )

Jackie Cochran · Advanced

It depends on the horse. I've mostly ride horses with Arab blood, a breed usually rated as more intelligent than most. There are variations in intelligence in horses with Arab blood (pure or part.)
I have found, however, with all types of horses, that if the aids are presented in a logical and clear manner, with prompt release for obedience, that even "dumb" horses can learn quickly.
The most intelligent thing I ever saw a horse do was done by a Thoroughbred gelding. He and a Connemara pony were put in the riding ring next to their pasture because of the rich spring grass. Both equines were upset at being away from their herd, plus they were convinced that they were starving. The pony kept running up and down the fence, while the TB went down and started working on a board of the fence next to a grazing paddock. He got enough of the fence down so he could walk over it, started grazing, then looked up and "talked" to the pony who finally crossed the fence. Then the TB led the way down to the lake, went into the lake and walked around the fence, waited for pony to follow, then they both walked up into their pasture, exploded into a gallop, and rejoined their herd.
THAT was a smart horse! He was the only horse smart enough to figure that all he had to do was walk around the end of the fence that projected into the lake.
Both horses were experienced hunters and jumpers, but they did not take the easy way of just jumping over the fence. No other horse at that stable, including my very smart Anglo-Arab, ever figured it out.
SOME horses are VERY smart.

Barnmouser Ash · Grand Prix

I would have to agree with you, Justice (like that's a big surprise, right? ;) ) Horses are very adaptable creatures, but I would say you're spot on in measuring them in terms of wisdom rather than ability to learn how to count or recognize photos, for example. :)

Geoffrey Pannell · Well Schooled

The horse is only as smart as to how much you love it! In other words , the more you love your horse the smarter he gets!!

Nikki Salo · Grand Prix

Great insight Geoffrey biggrin

Marlene · Advanced

I think horses are very smart at reading and manipulating humans to get what they want (also called doing tricks, or showing "respect" to humans). But I don't think they are generally big planners. As Jackie pointed out that type of Grand Escape Planning depends on a leadership type horse. In the wild that is the horse who would have been relied on for survival plans in time of hardship.
I have often wondered why jumpers don't just jump out of their pen if they wished. Are they smart enough to know that Bad Things could happen, or that humans would restrict them even more if they did?

-- Edited by Marlene on Tuesday 8th of March 2011 12:47:40 PM

Barnmouser Ash · Grand Prix

Marlene: I've often wondered that as well (why don't jumpers jump out of their pastures). I think perhaps it has something to do with the correlation between staying in their pen and receiving food/attention/etc. I think horses are very much smart and adaptable creatures, who know where the goods are! (Ever go out to a pasture and immediately get swarmed by inquiring noses, going straight to your pockets? ;) They know where it's at!)

Geoffrey: Very good insight indeed ;)

Jackie Cochran · Advanced

Vladimir Littauer, the great Forward Seat teacher and author, wrote in one of his books that his pasture fences were THREE FEET HIGH. His horses regularly jumped 3 to 5 feet in lessons and competitions but they did not jump out of their pastures. He then did some experiments. He included jumping into and out of the horse's home pasture in the lessons for a few weeks. Then he separated the horse in the same riding ring next to his regular pasture and herd, and he never had a horse jump the 3 foot fence to rejoin his herd.
Littauer jumped a lot of horses and taught many, many people how to jump horses. He did not think jumping was a totally natural movement for a horse, and that in nature horses rarely jump--it sort of comes with being a plains animal.
Littauer had lots of TBs, 3/4 TBs and 1/2 TBs, fox hunters, show hunters, and open jumpers. If these horses would not voluntarily jump a 3 foot fence to rejoin the herd or to eat grass, then why would other type horses?
To be truthful, I have seen ONE TB mare jump a 4 foot fence to rejoin her herd, but as far as I know she only did it once. We used to jump in and out of the horse's pasture, but usually an escaped horse had gotten a fence down low enough so the horse could walk over it.
Horses do not jump over fences unless we train them to. Talented trained horses can jump very athletically and over high jumps, and some of them may, if they feel like it jump to escape, but it is a rare behavior.
Ponies can be slightly different, but even they usually reduce a fence first.

spirithorse · Advanced

Intellect:
the faculty of reasoning, knowing, and thinking
Intelligence:
the intellect, the understanding, the wisdom

Horses are like elephants, intelligence beyond what mere mortal humans would like them to have.!!!!

Barbara F · Grand Prix

I do think we stifle our horses' intelligence potential (if there be such a term) in a number of ways.

1. Certainly by keeping them separate from a herd and in a little box for most of their lives. My horse gets 3-4 hours of turn-out in the morning, then I am up riding and grooming him in the afternoon, which usually takes 2-3 hours in total. The rest is spent in his stall, which drives me crazy. thank goodness there are bars between his stall and his neighbor's so he can have contact with another horse.

2. By being limited in our ideas of how to mentally stimulate and mentally (not physically) challenge our horses. I watch Ellen Ofstad's videos and she is so far beyond what I know how to do with my horse. Her chair games, her free lunging. She is incredible and she makes me wish I knew how to do more with my horse.

3. By stopping every bit of initiative they have when we ride them. In other words, by controlling every single step they take. Not everyone does this, of course, but I do believe it's an issue. Certainly with dressage horses, while we are working, we are literally controlling every stride. I try very hard to counter balance that by taking my horses on lots of hacks on imperfect ground, where they have to figure out how to balance, problem solve and take care of themselves.

All in all, perhaps our horses are only as smart as we allow them to be and it is we who hold them back.

Barnmouser Ash · Grand Prix

Excellent, excellent points, Barb. This can be perhaps applied throughout the animal kingdom (including humans). Perhaps horses have unlimited capability in a sense, but we tend to hold them back because of our own ideas. Very interesting thought :)

Jennifer Lamm · Yearling

If you ever try clicker training you will see how smart a horse is... my god Oliver is so so so smart...... he comes when I call him and he understands words... if I just ask him to back up he will, he will go in the gate of his stall and back out if I ask him... ..... one time Toby my other horse and I were talking, (:)) and Oliver was backing up all around the arena in a perfect square even making the turns by himself because he wanted to see I guess if we were paying attention..... he cracks me up... his intelligence leads him to having such an awesome personality..... I enjoy living with my horses daily, in a herd like setting..... thankfully we can roam and hang out together.... I have learned so much from them..... ") my other horse Toby is smart too but he is just an older horse that someone taught to not be as trusting as oliver and his fear I think makes him learn a little slower... thats mostly about confidence maybe...

Marlene · Advanced

As far as fences go, I don't always use them as a physical barriers (except the perimeter of course). I use them as a sign to the horses, you may go here, please don't go there. The horses have pretty much free access to most areas of our property except for the back yard. The flimsy "fences" I have set up would not stop a horse that seriously wanted to enter that area, but the horses just respect that. Also once or twice my horse pooped on the driveway, I called him over and told him fairly sternly I didn't think that was appropriate and he didn't do it again. I wouldn't do this if they were babies, because they don't know any better. People who visit are a bit surprised, said that their horses eat the paint off their vehicles, but I expect my horses to respect my stuff.

Dancing Bear · Yearling

My mini stallion will undo a slip knots. He cannot be tied with a slip knot and he can open gates that are tied with a slip knot. The gates have to be secured with a chain and snap.

justice · Grand Prix

Horses aren't dumb, they just don't speak English : )

IrideaClyde · Well Schooled

Barbara you make some very interesting points. I too like the insight Ellen Ofstad brings to her video's I would love to train with her!!!
I think horses get bored easily and changing things up helps to keep them interested. Arena work, trail riding, shows, jumping, dressage I try to use them all with Clyde. He becomes much more responsive and attentive when we are doing something new.
He comes when called...even out of a brand new round bale, he puts his head into his halter, he often greets me with a soft knicker. He has a decent vocabulary and will back up just using the word 'back' he is very smart. He is fortunate in that he lives outside with two other horses and a donkey 24/7 so he is not penned up in a stall I am happy about that. But he is never buddy sour.
Once I was talking with the BO and Clyde was waiting at the gate to his paddock (he comes when he hears my voice) apparently I was not coming to get him as fast as he would have liked, (he knickered and I told him to wait) so he picked the gate up off the hinges and dropped it. Then stood there looking at the gate laying on the ground. :) smart!
I have to agree with Justice that horses just do not speak English so we need to learn their language, which is why I like Ellen Ofstad she is great at reading the horses language.

Daniela · Yearling

Hmmm ... clicker training is more like operant conditioning, rather than using intelligence - to *me* . I tend to see intelligence more as "problem solving" ability. I definitely think that horses are intelligent, but that they all show it in different ways. Some horses are not so intelligent, and just do what they are "told" . When I see a horse who can babysit a young child and yet challenge an adult, more experienced rider, I think THAT horse is smart. A horse who learns how to undo the gate latch, and lets everyone out, is smart because they just problem-solved all on their own. Usually those are the pain in the butt horses who also like to untie themselves. :)

I have one of those PITA horses who is great around kids, can be a royal pain to ride if he has a lot of energy and someone medium-high is riding, and will definitely know if it's a beginner and just do all the right things to scare the rider off his back. He started off as one of those horses who always found a way out of the pasture, untied himself and opened gates to free others. He seems to be able to find every rider's weakness, and yet, is great with kids around him or being ponied on him.

Your mileage may vary, lol. We all have different ideas about intelligence. :)

Nikki Salo · Grand Prix

I think horses are highly intelligent, and animals in general (I even have a Betta fish who can tell the difference between me -- who only feeds him the proper amount of food, and when my boyfriend walks by the tank, who over feeds him with mini shrimps, and this is just your average fish). I also believe that each horse has it's own personality and level of intelligence, just like a human. Horses are highly trainable in all sorts of different ways (just take a look at all the methods of horse training out there), they are also very good problem solvers, and as mentioned, some can even note the difference of being a kind gentle soul to babysit a young rider, and become a spirited mount for a more advanced rider.

I think Justice said it, horses don't speak English, and we don't speak Equus very well. Humans have mastered a lot of languages the world over, but I'm only really fluent in English, so if you put me in a room with a bunch of Russian scientists, we'd be playing a game of charades all day just to begin to understand each other on a very basic level. I believe that we are at that very basic level with horses and animals in general.

Goatgirl · Advanced

I think we as humans like to believe that human intelligence is the measure of ....welll.... the highest intelligence.

We tend to forget - a dog is not a horse is not a human is not a dolphin is not....you get my drift.

A horse relies more heavily on sound, and scent than we do - their eyes are scanning - their perceptions of the world are much different than ours - they walk on four legs and have hooves - we are upright and have hands to manipulate.

- horses learn extremely well - I've read many studies in which it was found that once they figure things out -- it it learned...

- one study I read did stated their intelligence was up there - with dolphins...

-that said -- we can no more generalize the intelligence of horses than we can human beings...or any other species...

- more often than not people like to say animals are not like us at all - that when they demonstrate what we as a species narcisticly call 'human' behaviour - the animal is instinctively behaving as if it 'loves it's young, loves it's friend...is figuring out whatever....' With this reasoning we can turn it around then too...the human is 'instinctively behaving as if they understand...etc.'

I for one - believe ALL non-human animals have much more understanding, 'intelligence' than we give them credit for - infact I believe many have intelligence beyond human intelligence...

And perhaps when questioning an animal's intelligence -- we should ask -- 'how intelligent would I be if I were forced to live in their world - and understand what they wish from me -- I know for a fact I would make a miserable wolf, caribou, coyote, dog, cat, horse, pig....-- my intelligence trying to function in their society - would quickly land me in their society as 'village idiot.'

Goatgirl · Advanced

I'd also like to add - when I was a child - Sharks were seen as brainless eating machines - we now know they are intelligent, with sophisticated hierarchies -- among other things - now they are endangered....

As a species - our arogance is allowing us to justify the anihilation of species, destruction of habitat and in many cases because 'it's just an animal and doesn't understand,' The emotional, psychological suffering of not human species is often dismissed or seen as not 'an issue'

I know too well that if my cats, horses, or dogs had opposeable thumbs ....I'd be ...innnnn biggggg trouble

-- Edited by Goatgirl on Monday 11th of April 2011 10:33:56 PM

justice · Grand Prix

Hit the nail square on the head for me, Goatgirl, very well said!

Kathleen K · Well Schooled

You got it, goatgirl. Very well said.