Draw Reins - Razors in the hands of monkeys?

Barbara F · Grand Prix

Draw Reins - Razors in the hands of monkeys?

Jackie Cochran · Advanced

This is my private opinion. These reins can be dangerous. They take extremely good feel on the reins. I tried them once and quickly realized my hands were not good enough, the mare would stride forth at a walk on the regular rein and immediately curl up when I used the draw reins. Both were with LIGHT contact. The feel of the draw rein is deceptive, it feels almost normal even as the horse curls up. The rider NEEDS TO LEARN how to correctly interpret the feel.

Unless the rider is a professional who has been trained by a good teacher in how to use the draw reins it is better to find another solution.

Beginners, week-end riders, and pleasure riders have no business using these reins.

In skilled hands these reins can help to solve some problems, the BIG challenge is trying to find a teacher that knows how to use them correctly and is capable of teaching a rider how to use them correctly.

MagsNMe · Advanced

They can be really dangerous. They can be extremely useful in a SPECIFIC situation, used by a very skilled hand, and then removed.

As an aside, for an inverter, like my mare, running martingale. Hangs there when they are being good, snaps to attention when they aren't, no skill required. She figured that one out pretty darned quickly, and I didn't have to do anything. Handy little buggers.

barnfrog · Advanced

It is often said you have to be an expert to use them, and if you are an expert you don't need them. They should be reserved for specific cases, and only used a handful of times. Most riders use them for longitudinal flexion, but they are meant for lateral flexibility which then leads to the horse offering longitudinal flexion. They are not meant for a light contact, but for a very specific reaction. Too easily they become a crutch, and actually build underneck as well.

justice · Grand Prix

I do not consider myself an expert. However. I might use them, albeit rarely and only when I need them to

A) get the point across on what it is specifically that I want and the green or "slow" horse just doesn't get it any other way. Engagement of the hind quarters is always correctly asked for first, but then suggested or supported with DRs once achieved or at least the effort is made in the correct direction. DRs allow me to "show" the horse what I want. This is a matter of minutes and once or twice.

B) to briefly support a horse coming back into work that is so unfit or weak from an injury/lay-up that they just don't have the muscle YET to comply. Again, this is a few minutes per ride, and as soon as the horse can even just get to a moderate frame on his own, DRs are gone.

I am not a fan of them (not a fan of gimmicks and most artificial aids, in general, or the people that think they are the be-all/end-all of training techniques) but they do allow me to add to my repertoire of management and therapy applications on rare occasions. I would not use nor do I allow them to be used (with horses under my auspices only) for general training purposes when the horse shows no needs for them.

As arrogant as this might read: we here at field of dreams enjoy the results of the challenge and time we put into achieving correct carriage and cool friendships on our own merits. Not always a bonus when training, from a client's pov, as quality takes TIME but the horses are happy, light and willing.. we are happy with that : )

-- Edited by justice on Friday 1st of April 2011 03:00:26 PM

prospect · Advanced

I think that they can be useful but you have to be careful. I use them occassionally

MagsNMe · Advanced

I think most of us agree that they are a tool, which, used appropriately, is valuable.

I've just seen too many kids with unsteady hands, use them to 'frame' a horse, when all they are doing is forcing a head down, not actually engaging the hind quarters and getting the horse moving through the back. And I hate to say it, most of them... hunter/jumper. And I did it for 20 years, I know whereof I speak.

When a trainer gets a kid that wants to jump, they don't say no no, you can't do that, you have to learn to flat first... they start them jumping. Because, if they don't, the kid moves to another trainer who will. It's an instant gratification world. Now in Europe, where trainers are ... trained, and require credentials, and it's treated like any other profession, you can't just pick up and go to the next person, because they won't let you do it either.

My two cents, of course.

barnfrog · Advanced

Draw reins are for lateral flexibility which then allows longitudinal flexion as a result. They are NOT to frame a horse (Longitudinally) by action onto the bars, be very careful.

MagsNMe · Advanced

That would be why 'frame' was in quotes.

justice · Grand Prix

Should have put my "frame" in quotes, too.

MagsNMe · Advanced

Quotes all 'round!

justice · Grand Prix

Lol @ MagsNMe : )

Jackie Cochran · Advanced

First, I do not see a lot of people using draw reins.

But the ones I see using them all seem to have horses or ponies who are simply too big for them. I suspect that their horses are also too strong for them, and that their horses KNOW that they are stronger than their riders.

If a horse is too big for a person the leg aids do not touch the horse in the proper place on the barrel, irritating the horse who then goes on his forehand and bores ahead with his/her head. It also means that the riders cannot give the necessary leg aids to encourage the horse to bring the hind legs forward. I imagine that it would be possible for a horse to accept aids higher on the barrel as driving aids if the horse is trained this way, but for some reason this does not seem to occur to the trainers.

Yes, I know, lots of people use draw reins on any size horse, but this observation is from my own extremely limited exposure to them.

Emiry · Advanced

I do a little bit of jumping and a fair bit of ground work. My last lesson actually was half-halts, but focusing more on the correct release for transitions.
My instructor is more of a dressage person, and since we are riding school pony's, the only artificial aids we can have are: saddle, bridle(bit and reins attached obviously), polo's and boots if needed(don't know if these would count as aids) and a jumping bat/dressage whip. She would KILL us(well a little exaggeration) if we tried to put draw reins on the horses.
She would also go into stories about her crazy horse and how she didn't need them to train him and if she could survive that, then we wouldn't need to use that on our well trained scheming ponies.

Queenrider · Advanced

I can say that I have used them in my distant past. Now I use a Balance Rein which is just a rein around the neck. It has a similar effect to draw reins without any of the negatives. I have been using it on my spooky youngster and it has helped to keep him forward and soft. It places pressure at the base of the neck and encourges him to lift through his shoulders so he doesn't hang and get heavy. It also has the advantage of taking me with him when he does spook and he doesn't get jabbed in the mouth. You hold the extra rein in your hand like the curb rein of a double bridle. It has the effect of an extra outside rein I find. I was taught about this over 30 years ago. TTEAM uses this.
Reiner Klimke said it best when asked about why he didn't use draw reins. He said only an expert should use them and he didn't consider himself an expert.

Nikki Salo · Grand Prix

I have to agree with pretty much what everybody else has said. I have used draw reins in the past, and will most likely use them in the future if they are warranted. Everything in the wrong hands can be bad, but I agree with what Jackie said, you have to really have a good feel of the horse under you because you can get a "false reading" from draw reins. I have only used draw reins in conjunction with another set of reins, and it is one of my huge pet peeves to see any rider using draw reins as their only/primary rein while riding. These are also those offenders who generally are trying to get their horse on the bit by riding in draw reins that run between the horse's legs and are yanking them repeatedly so the horse's nose is between it's knees hmm

All in all, draw reins can be useful by experienced riders when they are needed. All others need not try to use draw reins, it is safer that way.

justice · Grand Prix

In my camp, I think they help fill in MY weaknesses more so than that of the horse. Which is why I do not actively train any more (post injury asymmetrical abilities). I do more teaching now limiting my riding to my own horses.

Goatgirl · Advanced

I once rode at a dressage barn in which they were considered part of everyday tack - this was years ago. Everyone used them routinely.
What happened were a lot of people were riding around horses who were strung out in the back and flexed and over-bent in the front.

Since I left that barn I sold my draw reins and have not used them again.

That said - Draw reins have their place - only in the hands of 'educated' individuals. People with an understanding of how these are a 'tool' to be used as a 'reminder', refresher - and temporarily. They're not to be ridden off of - like when riding in a double - the curb is not to be ridden off of - but there when a little more is needed - gently - and not 'hung' on....

People tend to forget that the seat and legs driving the horse foreward into the bridle is what gives us our flexion - our throughness -- that amazing sense of power beneath us and all that good stuff...soooh only the educated should be using draw reins -

that's my feeling anyway - I hope I didn't step on anyone's toes...or insult anyone -- but I could be wrong in what I said...or right...or...? It's just my feeling -- hope it's not offending anyone...if it is...I'm sorry...didn't mean to

barnfrog · Advanced

THe reason that the horses were strung out and over bent after typical use is because they are used for leverage for longitudinal flexion rather than lateral flexibility (which is why they were called 'draw' reins). And for sure they are NOT to be used w/o cessation but paired with a touch of the leg.

BALANCE is what puts the horse into the bridle, driving the horse into the bridle only breeds resistances. Longituidinal flexion is a result of folding of the hindleg joints and a mobile jaw

Barbara F · Grand Prix

Great terminology, Barnfrog. "Folding" creates a very helpful image. Thanks!

Goatgirl · Advanced

what I am trying to point out is that you ride the horse back to front - yes - straight, forward, - balance -- all of this comes into play -- I'm usually hesitant about writing when I'm trying to explain stuff on web because I know what I'm trying to say...but ...

but you do have to ride the horse forward into the bridle and soft giving hands - - when the horse moves forward properly it comes forward into a natural flexion...
when it is moving forward properly it is balanced - but a horse must be ridden through the seat and legs - when it is ridden correctly from behind the horse achieves the longitudinal flexion - a correct warm up includes forward, as well as forward lateral excersise which encourage your horse to step under itself ...

.when people were using draw reins they were focused on gaining a break at the pole which does not happen when a horse is going forward in correctly and not balanced - the horse will tend to break at the third vertebrae and be strung out behind.

When a horse is through they're soft like butter in the mouth they feel like they've grown and you can really feel their power as they work through the motor -- they're big and lovable quarters...-- when people use draw reins as a crutch - they're working front to back - forgetting the principles

what i want to say is

my feeling is draw reins should only be used sparingly and only in educated hands

they truly can be 'razor-blades in the hands of monkeys'...the barn I rode at years ago where they all used draw reins - the chiropractor was in every month for all the horses .....small wonder

anyway....I'm going to shut up now...because I feel like I sound dum...I know what i'm trying to say...but I don't think I'm saying it very well....so I guess I just put my other foot in my mouth...in for a penny in for a pound I suppose..

-- Edited by Goatgirl on Friday 22nd of April 2011 11:18:42 AM

-- Edited by Goatgirl on Friday 22nd of April 2011 11:47:58 AM

-- Edited by Goatgirl on Friday 22nd of April 2011 01:03:54 PM

EricaK · Foal

Just wrote in my blog about this - http://www.writingofriding.com/riding/how-to-use-draw-reins/

To summarize - draw reins do nothing that cannot be done without using draw reins, however they do create problems unique to their use which can damage the future training and potential of your horse during the rest of his riding career. All of the major issues that turn up as reasons to use draw reins can be corrected by riding your horse with impulsion, straight and light; with the wonder of time and patience added in.

I cannot tell you how many horses I've seen who have been trained with draw reins (many with the best of intentions on the part of the rider) who are useless from a classical dressage standpoint if they are not completely retrained because you lose the connection to their hind limbs, you lose the connection to their mouth and to be honest - in most you lose the horse's trust in the rider altogether as well. You see a lot of horses who are not forward, falsely light (rather they are evading contact with the bit and have an extraordinarily hard time of becoming 'through') and attempting to ride them straight is laughable.

Rollkur trained horses are often ridden in draw reins as well.. something to keep in mind.

Up, open, forward and light... lather, rinse, repeat. :)