Contact During Warm-up

Barbara F · Grand Prix

Contact During Warm-up

Goatgirl · Advanced

I start my warm up on a loose rein. Down to the buckle. And just let my horse move out at a walk and then a trot. He has allergies and needs to cough in the beginning of our work. In the beginning he does seem to appreciate it to he stretches right down as he goes forward stretching his back out - I slowly gather up and take more contact - I carry my hands not worrying about head set we work in trot (rising trot) - walk - trot- leg yield - shoulder fore - etc....I take up a bit more contact as I start to feel him 'grow' - come under himself...and we are ready to get to the 'meat' of our practice

-- Edited by Goatgirl on Saturday 30th of April 2011 01:05:04 PM

Jackie Cochran · Advanced

I know you want dressage answers, but here is a Forward Seat viewpoint.

I start my warm-up on loose reins. If for some reason the horse does not cooperate I do not do much of anything else until I can establish a free swinging walk on loose reins. This is the basis of all my work.

After the horse gives me this walk, I shorten the reins until they are slightly sagging, then I ask the horse to move out with leg aids. The HORSE decides how much contact he wants. Usually with me the horse wants REALLY LIGHT contact but then my MS messes up my hands.

The only time I consent to keep strong contact with the horse is when the horse is moving faster/more extended. Usually the horse decides. Sometimes I will increase my contact a little bit (grams) to ask for faster/or extension. I never accept strong contact at slow speeds and I rarely accept it at medium speeds.

Since I can only ride about 30 minutes at a time I sort of view ALL my riding as warm-ups!

If the horse insists on supporting his head on my hands (really strong contact) I stop all contact and work on loose reins concentrating on getting his hind legs to swing freely. I do not ask for contact again until the horse is strong enough to carry his own head. I am too weak to carry a horse's head in my hands.

My normal contact goes from a few grams to around 8 ounces. Extreme speed may demand contact stronger than this but I will let the horse tell me what he wants.

barnfrog · Advanced

The question is where you start talking about warm up. When the rider mounts the horse should be gathered, squared, on the bit, and stand that way. THEN the rider can ask for the next stage. Ideally the horse spends 15 minutes free walking on loose reins. It takes this long for the synovial fluid to warm up/to be useful for the joints.

Then the next phase is to put the horse to contact, keeping it up/open/active. To merely let the horse go on loose reins teaches nothing, nor does it improve balance/etc. That is not to say that the horse should not be asked to follow the reins fdo as a TEST of proper chewing/seeking the hand.

How strong is the contact per se (weight in hand)? The rider must not allow bracing, nor act against the hand. The first job of the rider is keep the horse up/open, not allow preciptious flexion. Ideally the horse was started this way: steady tempo/balance, not asking for longitudinal flexion (but introducing it through lateral flexibility). But this is rarely done in today's world where most horses are low and closed, and as such will tend to be dead in the hand, using the hand as a fifth leg, and w/o mobility of the jaw.

If started traditionally the horse should be slightly more than the weight of the rein, the HORSE filling out the hand, not the rider holding back on the reins.

In exercises like s.i. etc the horse should stay up/out to the rein. Only if they are specifically asked to chew fdo should they lengthen more (this can mean a few steps or a coule of circles).

Stronger contact is only when using a demi arret (to lift/open), but hh and demi arrets should be very calculated in ending them.

Goatgirl · Advanced

just want to add -- my coach whom I adore -- he is a stickler about walking before we work -- we walk always for about15 min before anything else - he's also a stickler for working laterally in the warm up -- straight - forward - soft - supple and balanced.

he is also a stickler for letting the horse 'come to you'

-- not taking in the front... - I did a clinic with a coach not long ago - and she wanted me to right away take in front in the warm up and my horse sucked back with a vengence -- I broke down in tears at the end of the clinic -- because my horse was unhappy -- and I felt stupid -- as if I'd humiliated my poor animal.

dbliron · Advanced

eek, Barbara! This is a huge question!

Given that my "warm-up" takes 20 minutes, it's hard to give a precise answer to this question...

I too walk my horses on the buckle for a minimum of 10 minutes to start, even though they are turned out in pastures and walk on their own all day. At competitions and clinics that walk work is usually extended to 20 minutes. During that time I spend about the first half just walking strongly forward in a long, stretched, and relatively free outline. Then I pick up the connection on the short walls, riding assertive medium walk into light contact, and continue to ride the long sides/diagonals in free walk. After at least another 5 minutes of doing that I ride into working trot rising out of the medium walk on the connection. This again is usually on a light, and fairly long connection. I might or might not spend some time in canter on 20m circles/straight lines in the same light and long connection before beginning to shorten the connection and ride transitions to put my horses more uphill and between my aids.

As Barnfrog said though, one cannot begin out of nothing, hence the medium walk in the bridle on the short ends and then into working trot into a more stretched outline.

The contact throughout the work is endlessly variable, depending on the horse, its balance within whatever we're doing, its strength, its impulsions, etc., etc. I am a stickler for encouraging horses to come to me too - I ride thousands of transitions to create throughness, suppleness, and ensure that they are willingly enclosed by the aids. I could not say that the contact is heavy or light by design in every step - it's a constantly changing evaluation and adjustment within the conversation between me and the horses.

Barbara F · Grand Prix

You guys have reminded me that I should have mentioned that I always start at a forward walk on a long loose rein.

This is not just for the horse, but it gives me a chance to warm up my muscles a bit and clear my mind of the clutter that I might have taken with me to the barn that day.

Also, to clarify my contact a bit, I am always looking for the feeling of water flowing (my coach's term) as the horse moves and when I do a half-halt, rather than mud (also her term and one of my favorites! :)

-- Edited by Barbara F on Saturday 30th of April 2011 05:06:59 PM

-- Edited by Barbara F on Saturday 30th of April 2011 05:08:17 PM

SiobhanDressage · Well Schooled

I start on a loose rein and then work into more contact. If I pick up the trot and he still feels tense I usually walk for 5 more minutes, with lots of change of bend and light lateral work.

justice · Grand Prix

Warm-up for me when I ride, as well as the horse and student is a deliberate (more than a paddock wander), loose-reined walk with much gentle stretching of lateral and neck. Radiating circles and adjustments in the rhythm and length of stride are added until the horse is swinging freely, then shorter but same at trot with light contact. Then back to walk with more formal requests and onto the work set. I have found that a good warm-down programme is most helpful, maybe even necessary for those that have limited to no turn-out.

barnfrog · Advanced

So, how does anyone think more that free walk on a loose rein to allow warm up of the synovial fluid in any way advances the training? What training purpose is served by letting a horse go around on a loose rein in the other gaits (because of the innate imbalancing effect)?

Goatgirl · Advanced

I will let my horse trot a bit on a loose rein because that is when he'll start to cough because of his allergies...then I bring him back to walk...I have to let him keep his head down...right down - but we concentrate on forward -- he's not allowed to dawdle...--

so many dressage riders are afraid to let go infront....-- I will lope him forward too on a loose contact - and then he's happy to come back and work -- but then I rode western as a very young child and bareback through my early teens and then went into the jumper discipline before a crash turned me to dressage -

I also rode trek - so I can see the benefits of allowing the horse to be loose infront -- my horse automatically stretches right down - stretching out his back...while moving forward - I don't care if we look like western pleasure pair - it makes my horse happy and he's happier to go back to his collected work.- back to his extentions....and all the fancy foot-work...

that said we also do alot of letting him stretch down into the contact following my hands when we're schooling - (he is very baroque in conformation - though that's neither here nor there)

I really think whatever helps to ultimately make your horse happy and willing to work...In as much as I 'drill' my horse in dressage movements - we do play too...- even if it means loose rein - lots of pats - and conversation...-

he's not just my dressage mount -- he's my buddy.

-- Edited by Goatgirl on Monday 2nd of May 2011 12:51:50 PM

barnfrog · Advanced

There is a big difference between letting the horse re-use its neck over uneven footing outside, western please, and schooling toward collection.

Yes, to some extent the horse will keep its neck enough lifted to be a useable counter weight IF it is active enough, but by the same token most will be too much onto the forehand and the posture is literally and figuretively a waste of time.

Why do horses cough when they start work? Most of the time because their mouths start to be wet and they are not chewing and swallowing, so they inhilate saliva

Often it is one's past that affects how warm ups go, but they are not necessarily the best for the horse.

Stretching down per se is not useful and does nothing for the hindlegs/back/etc. Seeking fdo allows movement of the entire body, but for the most part this means first the horse is put to contact and THEN chews fdo DYNAMICALLY (following the hand/keeping the connection/not dumped away).

What people 'makes their horse happy' (non interaction for many people on no contact) or certain bits (verses the proper use of the hand/etc) and what is actually dynamic training/interaction are two different things. Horses should NOT be 'drilled' in exercises. That is not the proper use of exercises/figures at all. Those things are for interaction/feeling/developing the horse.

Goatgirl · Advanced

my horse coughs because he has allergies - he's got sweet-itch as well as allergies to dust etc. - that's why he coughs -
perhaps I used the word drill - incorrectly - I should have used the word practice

my horse and I are happy - he goes correctly - and we consistantly scorred well in competions when we were competing - in Canada Cup as well as in other larger and smaller competitions. When I still chose to compete - Infact at the International at TB one of the judges said 'now that is a dressage horse' - refering to my mount - was one of my proudest moments - I no longer chose to because I get more out of lessons-
and training and playing -- and my coach does encourage me to let him go and just ride him out -- and forward in the beginning -- we have some great lessons and some moments that I wonder what I'm doing on horse-back --

but

my horse is willing, relaxed - he performs piaffe (sitting down nicely), pirrouette - half-pass - free-walk - walk, trot, canter, changes...- and does so without wringing tail or bulging eyes...and we play and enjoy each other -

he has no back problems, doesn't resist when I take contact....

As far as I'm concerned there are no absolutes in equestrian sport - what works for a horse works for a horse -

my horses are happy to meet new people friendly - perform well when asked....they come to me when I go into the field - they don't run when I turn them out - rather they stay with me and ask to be petted and scratched and loved -- that to me is more success than anything.

so - whatever floats your boat as far as I'm concerned...
but I'm just a person who rides dressage (with a classical bent) - and whatever else tickles my fancy -- I do...

whatever floats your boat ---

peace out - as the youngsters say.

-- Edited by Goatgirl on Monday 2nd of May 2011 03:21:08 PM

justice · Grand Prix

Also with GG, my horses are my family, I am NOT aspiring for an Olympic berth, they are not for sale or breeding use, no-one else has to deal with them. I LOVE my horses the wway they are and WANT them happy, comfortable and amenable to most if not all the oddities that we humans feel they need/want (within reason). I want them to be able to not stress over EVERYthing because EVERYthing is handled as a training issue. Warm-up is warm -up, training is training, pleasure is pleasure : )

SiobhanDressage · Well Schooled

My warm up walk is a 'free walk on a loose rein', like I'd do in a test, then a medium walk, then usually working trot.

Barnmouser Ash · Grand Prix

Coming from a non-english point of view here: I warm horses up very much the way I warm myself up when preparing for exercise. I start off with a nice brisk (forward) walk to get my heart rate up and my legs stretched out some. Then proceed to my jogging at a light pace for x amount of time. Come back down to a walk for a breather. Come back up to a jog. Down to a walk. Up to a jog, then up to a run. Down to a jog as necessary. The same translates to the horse. I believe in a "thorough" warm up and cool down. Working your way slowly up the transition ladder and slowly back down. Ever sprint 100m and then stop dead? Kinda hard on your lungs and heart ;)

In regards to the actual question about contact, I would say I'm similar to your original post, Barb. Encouraging forward movement and reaching for the contact but not reeling the face in by any means or demanding the horse works off the hind end immediately. Once properly warmed up and stretched out, it's another story. But to get there, it's baby steps to make sure nothing gets pulled/strained/torn/bowed/etc.