NSAIDs The systemic NSAID group includes phenylbutazone (Butazolidin) and flunixin meglumine (Banamine), which are 2 of the most widely prescribed drugs in equine medicine.

Nikki Salo · Grand Prix

Ban Horse Meat or Reopen Plants?

Jackie Cochran · Advanced

When equine slaughter was banned in the USA I knew it would be bad for the horse industry.

IF the slaughter plants are operated humanely and the horses are killed quickly and hopefully painlessly, they provide a market for unwanted horses. There will have to be strict rules about no drug/pesticide residues. I do see this as preferable to letting horses starve to death.

Unfortunately not everyone who buys a horse is prepared for the enourmous expense and work horses need. Since the slaughter ban has caused a glut of "cheap" horses on the market selling is often not an option any more. I don't like slaughter, but I realize the deep necessity for it.

Marlene · Advanced

I agree that just banning the slaughter doesn't help much and aggravates the cruelty. Further even if they could do the slaughter humanely, in effect I don't think it would be. The real answer lies on the supply end. As with the overproduction of dogs and cats, horses are bred in far larger numbers than can practically be cared for properly, too many discarded because they don't meet some specified purpose without retraining. Overbreeding combined with slowing economy adds to the whole mess. The only system I see having a chance would be a quota system as they have for dairy farmers or egg producers. Maybe not nice to handle horses as a comodity, but people do not jump into breeding dairy cows or poultry production without a lot of thought because they have to have a quota. This somewhat limits oversupply (not perfectly, but still). So some horse organization like the larger breeder groups would have to allow people to breed according to how responsably they serve the industry. I'm sure it would be pretty contraversial, start an uproar, but I think the current system is incredibly cruel to a huge number of animals.

Here in BC, a large number of sled dogs were put down inhumanely because the industry had a downturn, no one took responsability, no option for humane euthansia, really bad result. Same problem, just a different animal. Much more regulation needed on a much larger scale for all animals.

spirithorse · Advanced

Well, I might get flamed here, but horsemeat is better for human consumption than cattle. We here in America step out of reality when it comes to things like this. I am a passsionate lover of each and every horse, however, when the time comes to end the life of a horse there is food going to waste. We waste so much food in America and it is not fair to those who live in poverty. I believe the slaughter houses should be reopened for eatible horse meat. VERY STRICTLY regulated though. Allow Americans to purchase horsemeat, especially those who live in poverty.............if they so choose.

Marlene · Advanced

Logically I know horses should be edible. But honestly I couldn't go near the meat counter if it was there. I know lambs and calves are cute too, and so are little chicks, and piggies but I have managed to block that out for most of my life. Right now I am gradually getting to the point where I am having a hard time eating meat anyhow, even though my taste buds have been tuned to it all these years. I hadn't thought about the poverty aspect. But I would guess the food marketers would find a way to make horse meat just as expensive as all the rest, so as not to undercut the cattle farmers. I just feel like eating horse would be like eating dogs or cats (except I know it would be healthier of course.)

Jackie Cochran · Advanced

To a large number of Americans eating horsemeat is taboo, unlike many other cultures in the world. Sort of like pork with observant Jews.

There are ancient religious reasons for this taboo, partly pagan and partly Christian.

However I agree with Allen about the food. Horse hamburger (personally yuck) is a valid food that may be more affordable to the poor. If the meat is not contaminated with the all so many chemicals we put into and onto our horses, with humane slaughter, eating horse is really just one more unpleasant fact of life. It should be available to those many people who do not share our taboo. They live here too.

For me it would be hard, sort of like cannibalism. If I ever got hungry enough I would probably change my mind.

Nikki Salo · Grand Prix

Some interesting thoughts.

I was under the impression that horse meat was rather expensive, mainly due to the sweet flavor/low fat content.

This is always a big debate for me, I feel that unfortunately we may need slaughter plants (although they very much need better regulations), and I fully understand that horse meat is a source of food in other countries more than North America. I personally would not eat horse meat, but I can't judge somebody else for eating it.

Marlene · Advanced

One thing, if the meat was going to be for consumption it might motivate the slaughter house to kill more humanely. The reason being, if an animal is stressed when killed, the meat doesn't taste as good and is less tender due to the chemicals going through their system. I doubt if older or abused, malnourished,animals would be used for meat because again the meat is tougher. So there's only a select number that would be used for meat. I agree it is a waste if good meat isn't used, it's just really hard to get my head around the idea of horses as food.

TomDurfee · Foal

spirithorse you say "I might get flamed here, but horsemeat is better for human consumption than cattle" Where do you get your facts as my reasearch says the meat is poisonous.

Horse meat is unfit for humans to eat.
Food and Chemical Toxicology, Volume 48, Issue 5, May 2010, Pages 1270-1274
Association of phenylbutazone usage with horses bought for slaughter: A public health risk
Nicholas Dodman, Nicolas Blondeau, Ann M. Marini
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0278691510001225

Nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drugs - prohibited as well Phenylbutazone, known as "bute," is a veterinary drug only label-approved by the Food & Drug Administration for use by veterinarians in dogs and horses. It has been associated with debilitating conditions in humans and it is absolutely not permitted for use in food-producing animals. USDA/FSIS has conducted a special project to for this drug in selected bovine slaughter plants under federal inspection. An earlier pilot project by FSIS found traces less than 3% of the livestock selected for testing, sufficient cause for this special project. There is no tolerance for this drug in food-producing livestock, and they and their by-products are condemned when it is detected. Dairy producers must not use this drug in food-producing livestock and if it is found, those producers will be subject to FDA investigation and possible prosecution.
http://www.saanendoah.com/prohibiteddrugs.html

Horse Owner Survey Shows NSAID Use Trends
In a recent survey, 96% of respondents said they used nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drugs (NSAIDs) to control the joint pain and inflammation in horses, and 82% administer them without always consulting their veterinarian. More than 1,400 horse owners and trainers were surveyed to better understand attitudes toward NSAIDs, in a project sponsored by Merial, the maker of Equioxx (firocoxib).

http://www.thehorse.com/ViewArticle.aspx?ID=14073

99 percent of horses that started in California last year raced on bute, according to Daily Racing Form. Bute is banned in the United States and Canada for horses intended for the food chain. That’s a permanent ban.

Nonsteroidal Medication (NSAID’s)

Phenylbutazone (Bute), flunixin meglamine (Banamine), and ketoprofen (Ketofen) are the most common NSAID’s used in horses while aspirin and ibuprofen are the most commonly used NSAID’s in humans. These are very effective in eliminating discomfort and are usually the first line of therapy in minor musculoskeletal pain.

http://www.aaep.org/health_articles_view.php?id=253

NSAIDs The systemic NSAID group includes phenylbutazone (Butazolidin) and flunixin meglumine (Banamine), which are 2 of the most widely prescribed drugs in equine medicine.

Volume 25, Issue 3, Pages 98-102 (March 2005)

Dr Anthony Blikslager, DVM, PhD, DACVS (Associate Professor)a, Dr Sam Jones, DVM, PhD, DACVIM (Associate Professor)b

http://www.j-evs.com/article/S0737-0806%2805%2900061-4/abstract

-- Edited by Nikki Salo on Wednesday 29th of June 2011 03:10:19 PM

spirithorse · Advanced

Mr. Durfee,
Stuff is in just about everything you eat unles you are able to eat pure organic.
Any horses used for human consumption would have to be tested....and by the way.........at what levels are these drugs toxic to human beings?
And from a comparison of the finest cattle meat to horsemeat, do away with drugs, hormones, etc and horsemeat is far better................
I am one who tends to doubt the scientific findings you posted and that doubt arises out of the simple fact that Americans have a predetermined mind set AGAINST eating horsemeat............so there is reason to have findings that scare folks away from horsemeat.

-- Edited by spirithorse on Tuesday 28th of June 2011 06:13:40 PM

Marlene · Advanced

Honey, I'm already pickled in nsaids for the last 25 years, I can't function without them. But I still won't be eating horse meat. At any rate you'd be better off/more convincing quoting the research on how animal protein is linked to heart disease and cancer. Still poor people and confirmed meat eaters won't care about that either.

Emiry · Advanced

Banning if horse-meat is going to do nothing. They will still ship to Mexico and Canada, and there is still a market for it.

Re-open the slaughter house is what I say(sadly). It is a necessary evil. At least with slaughter, the horses die quickly, not left in a field and abandoned, or abused.

IrideaClyde · Well Schooled

I live in Canada and they still slaughter horses for meat here. You can buy a horse here for next to nothing so I do not agree that the prices would be affected.

I think more irresponsible people would have a really easy out, race horse not fast enough, don't like the horses color, conformation, a bit difficult, want a really cute baby not a mature horse...ship it! On to the next back yard bred fugly.

Horse slaughter is not humane not in anyway! [the captive-bolt stun gun method used with cattle is ill-suited for horses.]

How many of you have given your horse Bute???? How many have treated them for thrush, cleaned a cut and dressed it with any number of chemicals? Vacinated your horse? Do you really thing they will test all these horses [and there will be many 93,000 in 2009] for every drug??? If you think they will you are dreaming the cost would be enormous.

They take the word of the person that sold the horse, oh they are drug free absolutely... now give me my money and get rid of this fugly horse for me.

Most of the horse meat processed in this country is exported so there would not be alot of cheap meat available since European markets pay better.

What ever happened to responsible owners who called the vet and had their animal humanely euthanized? (yes it costs money)

Wake up people, work to discourage/limit, the breeding of horses. If that entails quotas or having to register every foal born or mare bred then so be it.

For you are in favor of slaughter here is a news story on slaughter of horses in Canada. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Em9lEuomLOQ

This is part of an article from the Humane Society of Canada http://www.hsicanada.ca/horses/horse_slaughter/

Horse Slaughter

With more than 93,000 horses slaughtered in 2009 alone, Canada’s horse slaughter industry is among the largest in the world, and a shameful betrayal against our loyal companions. Horses are slaughtered in Canada primarily to provide horse meat to European and Asian countries where it is eaten as a delicacy. Horses are brought to slaughter in every possible condition—old, young, sick, healthy, injured, and even pregnant. They are not all unwanted—often, their guardians can no longer afford to keep them, and bring the horses to auction hoping to find them a good home. But horribly, more than 50 percent of horses sold at rural auctions go to slaughter after being bought by “kill buyers”.

A Terrible Journey

Many times, horses are crammed in trailers designed for shorter animals and travel in uncomfortable positions over very long distances. Loading and unloading is extremely stressful and dangerous for horses as they are moved along the relatively steep ramps.

Canadian animal transport standards are among the worst in the industrialized world. Current regulations allow horses to be transported for up to 36 hours without food, water or rest.

This is only my opinion, but after driving down a 3 lane highway on a hot, hot day at 120 km an hour behind a double decker transport of horses going to slaughter, wondering if they have had any water, food or how many days they have been on that truck fighting for a little space only to get a captive-bolt to the forhead if they get one at all, before they hang them up and slit their throats.

I would not send my dog or cat away in a box full of other animals to have someone slaughter it inhumanely. Horses are not raised for meat, they are companions and pets why is this ok???

BREAKS MY HEART !!!!!!!!!!! JMHO

spirithorse · Advanced

We in the States cannot control Canadian and Mexican slaughter houses, however, we can can control their transportation and we do....

I would rather have the States control the slaughter of horses here then see them shipped to inhumane slaughter houses in other countries.

IrideaClyde · Well Schooled

You truely believe the slaughter houses in the US are any better regulated??? I doubt it have you been to a slaughter house, when you send your horse will you go check it out?
This is an article on slaughterhouses in the USA prior to legislation closing them. Apparently the issues are the same.
http://www.equineprotectionnetwork.com/slaughter/faq.htm
We are a throw away society...how sad :(

spirithorse · Advanced

We have no slaughter houses here in the States
I say open them up but regulate them heavily.

Nikki Salo · Grand Prix

Like Spirithorse has said, they started to faze out horse slaughter in the US back in 2007. Which has resulted in horses being abandoned/left to starve and backyard horse slaughter going on (big thing in Florida), like Emiry has mentioned. It is a situation where it is bad on both sides, it is bad if the slaughter plants are open, and it is bad if the slaughter plants are closed.

Unfortunately the closure of slaughter plants does not make people think twice about breeding/ the over population of horses, it doesn't make them think twice about leaving a horse to starve, or trying to "get rid of it". Even if Canada and Mexico decided to jump on the bandwagon of closing their (our, I'm in Canada) slaughter plants I don't think that on a whole it would make the industry become more responsible in these areas.

Like I said, this is a tough subject all the way around. Horse slaughter may be a necessary evil because there is not enough room/money for responsible horse owners to take on unwanted equines and there is not enough sense/logic to go around the majority of the time that would make these issues go away. Very very tough subject.

Barbfox · Foal

So many of the comments here talk about humane slaughter and regulation. Perhaps those terms would apply in the perfect world (ahh but then horses wouldn't be slaughtered). Since the U.S. is unable to enforce the regulation of even the transportation of horses to slaughter houses I seriously doubt that they would be able to regulate "humane" slaughter. And in fact they never have in the past. Rules put in place are not the same as rules enforced. It's the lack of enforcement that makes the impossibility of the words humane and slaughter to correctly occupy the same thought.

There is nothing quick about slaughter pipeline. Horses that are gathered for slaughter are sometimes kept for a couple of weeks waiting until there are enough horses for a good "load". They live in pens like cattle. If they got sold for an injury they remain in pain. If they are a baby who was ripped away from it's mother such as in the surrogate mare industry, they starve, if it's a horse that was a pet and then was discarded it sits there bewildered. The feed lot horses get no help while they wait until they are crammed into tight, often too small semis. The smaller and weaker horses get stepped on, pushed around, and sometimes trampled. The don't get water for hours and hours in stressful situations and heat. This is what happened when we had slaughter houses open in the U.S. Today's horses that get transported to the border, especially Mexico, have an even worse ride, still in the U.S. but still not protected. Where are the enforced regualtions? And ones that don't look fit enough to travel are often left to starve to death in the kill pens. There have been reports of kill pens feeding peanut hulls.....

In order to correctly process horse meat, as much as possible, the blood has to be pumped out of the circulatory system while the animal is alive and the heart is still beating. In order to do this in the U.S. the horse was "stunned" by a bolt gun in the forehead and the hung by it's back legs while the throat was cut in order to bleed out. Some horses were stunned into oblivion, many were only partially stunned because they were not hit hard enough or not hit in the right spot. No matter because when it comes to the actual processing this is when the hurry begins so the horse is hung and slit anyway. In Mexico they are sometimes just stabbed in the spine with an ice pick to render them helpless for hanging by the hind legs.

Because we use so many medications on our horses, American horses are not fit for human consumption. And the more lame they are at auction the more chance that they have been loaded with stuff for months. That only leaves them fit as animal food, so we pass the residual effects of the meds on to the animals in the zoo etc. (You may joke about all the nsaids you've taken in your lifetime but when they begin to take a tole on your own body you will cease joking and start to get angry.) In the 50's thousands of America's wild horses went for dog food. The odd thing now is that the wild horses are the only ones in America that are not filled with antibiotics and pain killers, so guess which group is prime for human consumption?

One of the emotional aspects of horse slaughter, aside from the inhumanity of it, is that most of us consider horses to be companion animals as opposed to livestock. Livestock is killed for meat, companion animals are not. Would you send your best canine partner to be processed for food for countries that eat dog meat? Americans need to choose whether our horses are companions or livestock.

And as far as using horses to feed hungry people. Most Americans won't eat it because it's a moral taboo. It might be far better to require that the ranchers who get cheap grazing rights and are forcing the Mustangs off of public lands, give a percentage of their herds to feed the hungry. After all these subsidized ranchers (also called welfare ranchers) do not pay even a fraction of what it is costing the government to maintain the land they use. Neither do they pay a fraction of what the government pays to sustain the Mustangs that are removed to make room for the cattle and there is not a shortage of beef in the U.S.

As far as I'm concern, the only solutions are to advocate for the horse. Keep U.S. plants closed and stop horses form crossing the borders for "processing" (the new kinder gentler world for slaughter) but even that doesn't seem constitutional. An American should be able to do what he wants with his own possessions. So the real problem lies with the selfish inconsiderate horse owners and breeders, and the people who think they have to have horses even though they can't afford it. There is something wrong with people who will let a horse pack them or their children along for years, or their children, and then consider the horse disposable because it can't do anything for them any longer. Americans are so greedy for money that they want that last dollar out of the poor horse's hide. American could use a little common sense : do a lot less breeding and a lot more gelding.

And euthanize instead of trying to get the last dollar out of the poor horse's "hide". If a person needs to get rid of or put a horse down, there are euthanasia clinics for those who can't afford it and there is euthanasia via the vets syringe for those who can. At the very least a bullet is more humane than the torture of a trip down the slaughter pipe line.

If you really believe that there is such a thing as a humane trip to the slaughter house I would love to read your description of how and what should happen.

IrideaClyde · Well Schooled

This is an extremely difficult subject. That being said I totally agree with Barbfox.

Nikki Salo · Grand Prix

How common are euthanasia clinics in the US? I'm just wondering because I've only heard of one in my area of Ontario which was many years ago and it took a lot of fund raising for it to happen.

If it is a feasible solution in the US (would most likely work great along side gelding clinics) how come more people aren't doing it? Is it because they aren't hearing about them?

spirithorse · Advanced

Nikki;
Never heard of such a clinic here in the States.
Somthing to look into though.

darkhorserunning · Well Schooled

I am proslaughter always have been and will be. WITH THE CLOSING OF THE STATES slaughter industry horses have become a dime a dozen. Quick fact canada is now taking over a hundred thousand horses for slaughter a year from the states it has killed the canadian market all together. 350 bucks for a broke horse come on people that raise and train these animals can not live on a tenth of what it took to get a horse to that point. Mass euthanazition eww that is just wrong, lets all posion are horses and render them completely useless, i would rather see a horse sent to slaughter then left to starve in someones back yard.

With the mass over population right now it is only going to get worse due to the fact horses are so cheap everyone is buying, backyard breeders are popping up all over, just so they can have a foal around. We have become over emotional twits, when it comes to horses classifying them as pets instead of livestock. please take a long hard look at what is going on in the states with horses before condeming ours to a over crowded trip to mexico...

Nikki Salo · Grand Prix

Darkhorsesrunning -- you bring up another good point. Horses from the US flooding the Canadian market.

Barbara F · Grand Prix

I don't know...are we humans entitled to eat everything - even our pets?

Yes, right or wrong, for most amateur riders, horses are pets, rather than livestock.

I am 100% in agreement with everyone who says one of the main problems with all this is the over-breeding. Breeding needs to regulated, the entire industry needs to be overhauled, and potential breeders need to be educated.

That being said, there are draft horses being bred JUST for food, so how to stop that? I have no idea, because the horses are bred specifically for export to countries like Japan.

The other issue, of course, is the tortuous slaughter pipeline. It is one thing to slaughter a horse for meat, quite another to ship it in hunger and terror on its way to death.

I don't have the answers, but surely we can do better for these poor horses.

-- Edited by Barbara F on Saturday 9th of July 2011 10:39:14 AM

spirithorse · Advanced

I say legalize the slaughter of horses for food here in the States. Place extreme handling regulations upon the transporters so the horses are handle in humane manner. Place extreme handling regulations upon the slaughterhouses so the horses are handled in humane manner.

I am against the inhumane treatment of unwanted horses and there is really no alternative. It costs so much money to maintain an unwanted horse in a rescue/retirement situtation that it is cost prohibitive to rationalize rescue as the solution.

Jackie Cochran · Advanced

About draft horses being bred just for food. There is so little demand for these gentle giants in farming, vanning, and delivery of BIG loads that several draft breeds almost went extinct when the internal combustion engine came about. The railroads increased the need for drafters within a city to deliver big loads from the train station, now we use trucks. Plowing is easier with a tractor. Trucks and tractors are both faster than the draft horses.

At least with draft breeds being bred for food the bloodlines will still be there when oil is totally disrupted or runs out. It would be very hard to breed a heavy weight drafter from light riding horses! WE HUMANS NEED THESE BLOODLINES KEPT SO THAT THERE IS AN ALTERNATIVE when everything goes kablooie. I hate that they are raised for food, but I am very glad that these breeds are not going extinct. Some day we will need them again.

barnfrog · Advanced

For the many horses who have been abandoned and left to slowly starve imho it far better to have a slaughter operation close to home. And people need to quit breeding horses which will go unridden and untrained Just mho.

VictoriaBoyd · Foal

This is a really difficult subject. But it's hard not to agree, that since the US banning of horse slaughter things have NOT gotten better. In fact they have gotten worse.

Horses travel longer distances, and arrive in poorer condition. It's also IMO, added to the stressors that cause people to dump/abandon/abuse these animals, by reducing their 'easy' alternative. It has NOT done what US elected officials hoped, which was: eliminate the problem of unwanted horses, by forcing people into either keeping them, or humanely euthing them - it simply HAS NOT worked. Elected officials are not in the habit of graciously admitting a mistake and fixing it, any more than they are really, really good at always researching a problem and finding a good quality solution. Sometimes they just do knee jerk reaction.

Sad to say that this problem wouldn't have become such a crisis, if instead they had put in place heavy regulations about the slaughter of horses, demanded the creation of slaughter techniques that were best suited for horses, and enforced their regulations within the slaughter industry. That wouldn't have quieted the PETA types, but it would have reduced the amount of film footage of horses suffering in slaughter houses designed for cattle that these folks were using to stir up the general public and put pressure on government.

I know that in some circles, Canada (and Mexico) are soundly critisized for the management of all these horses coming here for slaughter. But quite frankly, Canada is managing the massive increase of dumped horses from the USA. Basically we are cleaning up their mess. If the USA doesn't like Mexico's out of date management of animal slaughter then, you'd think they would have thought past the "Hey, let's just ban horse slaughter" to foresee what was going to happen. If the USA wanted to get out of the business of horse slaughter, then maybe they should have gone to Mexico and Canada and thrown some money at an improved system that would support other countries now responsible for their clean up.

Imagine what this situation would be like if Mexico and Canada did NOT slaughter horses? Where would the USA be sending them? What would be those horses' fates then?

Chenoa · Yearling

Back when Peta was pushing to shut down all the slaughter plants I wrote letter after letter...trying to get anyone to listen. The horse Market before the action to shut the plants down, was the 3rd largest industry in the WORLD. I expressed more horse's would be stuffed into trailers, traveling hundreds more miles, more arriving dead, no food or water during the trip, more abandoned, how it will effect the revenue of the United States all together! No one listened...all I heard was how could you feel that way, how could you love a horse and say this. My question is, how could you say you love a horse and feel like this is the answer?

I tried to speak about what it would do to the economy, how so many lame horses would be pushed into rescue's some legit some not. One I know of in Oklahoma ran by a very elderly women taking in horse's with broken necks, legs, skin diseases...etc etc...and I mean the worst of the worst. They don't get medical care, they are left to suffer, starve, and deal with their pain on a day to day basis. The elderly women can't even care for herself, let alone all the horse's she has. The local authorities bring them to her...don't know where else to take them. They are adopted by people that don't know a thing about a horse, the horse ends up dieing within days. Very few are adopted from this women, the people that do adopt them do it because they see them and feel sorry for them, or feel sorry for the elderly lady because she can't afford to buy her own food. Why would these horse's be forced to suffer?

I felt at the time they should have put laws on what horse's could be slaughtered. People let their emotions (they mean well) but they don't think of how some horse's may be like humans and beg for their time to go. You have people out there buying horses that don't take the time to educate themselves on how to care for a horse. They like to say they own one. Show it off to others. Then you have those that feel they are doing the horse justice when they are not. I find it selfish behavior, not caring about what position the horse is put in emotionally, physically, and mentally. If they placed a law that a horse must be lame (as in broken legs, neck's etc) that would cost more then X amount of $ to fix the horse, why not put it out of it's misery. If one is insane (it happens, usually due to human's) that can't be reconditioned then why not put it out of it's misery... If people put themselves in a horse's hooves..they might see things slightly different!

I would like for us all to work on getting a couple of plants opened back up. Our country is in trouble for many reason's and shutting down the plants was one of the first stepping stones taken to put us in this situation.

If anyone is out there with the know"s how to put into action and get it down..let me know I'll help in everyway possible!

BTW I did read and agree with one post where Piggies, chickens, sheep, goats, cattle, tropical birtds etc. are very cute...people don't always look at them the same as horses..but everyone of them are trainable just like a horse. If people took the time to work with them like they do a horse, dog or cat. The reason they don't view them the same is, they grew up eating the others so it's ok...they didn't grow up eating horse meat..they grew up seeing all the special shows of horse's, cartoon's of horses and how magisticl they are.

Chenoa · Yearling

smile I wish to thank you for all that info, but I have to say ..the same meds (some are slightly different form or name) that are used on horses are used on Cattle, Chickens, Pigs, Goats, Sheep etc etc...they test all meds on animals before they are approved by the FDA. Bute is a pain reliever just like Tylnol is for humans. How many people in this world know that in order for anything to be approved by the FDA it must kill x amount of animals before they put their stamp on it? Scarey if you ask me but true.

They put warnings on all meds that they are not to be used on (EX: CATTLE) meant for human consumption..but do you think they know what cattle had what meds/pesticides when they're bought at an action barn, with the intent to butcher them for human consumption?

No one is going to post info about that and push it. Anyone can make a website, blog, any manual paper on their theory of whats good and not good....the laws of what horse to be slaughtered should be put into effect.

Ex: Wait X amount of days to butcher any animal for human consumption before being slaughtered. OR better yet they should be required to test them for harmful meds., pesticides before being slaughtered for human consumption.

Slaughter in the horse world is a neccessary evil to weed out the lame, and insane (those that can't be reconditioned). But they need to enforce those laws...which would make a difference in our economy, our starving children/families, our quality of horse's out there. Not to forget the horse industry all together!

confuse Seriously..if you had a family and no food...no way of getting any food but had a horse you could butcher to feed your family...(just to give you a visual of whats in my mind...say you lived in conditions like a lot of humans in other countries, exspecially during war) would you not butcher that horse to save your family? Or should they live and be free while your family starves to death? Show me stats on how many starving families there are in this world...maybe their are more people that believe like some tribes in other countries that they should whorship an animal instead of feeding their family. <shrugging shoulders>

Just a thought and a few idea's

Chenoa · Yearling

IrideaClyde wrote:
You truely believe the slaughter houses in the US are any better regulated??? I doubt it have you been to a slaughter house, when you send your horse will you go check it out?
This is an article on slaughterhouses in the USA prior to legislation closing them. Apparently the issues are the same.
http://www.equineprotectionnetwork.com/slaughter/faq.htm
We are a throw away society...how sad :(

IrideaClyde : This is the point...they weren't...there needs to be laws, they need to be enforced!!!! sorry the website referred, in my opinion... isn't a professional website..and pictures, don't look worse than a lot of horse's on farms (as far as the horse's fittness). The hanging meat is no different then seeing a cow or pig hanging. I just wish people had this much passion about their neighbors!

I don't feel that the US had better or nicer slaughter houses..then another countries..but they should!

VictoriaBoyd · Foal

Chenoa - in Canada the laws and regulations are very strict and very specific. For example in the Ontario laws, no animal is slaughtered in Ontario that cannot be traced back to the owner. There is no risk that an animal would work it's way thru an auction scenario and end up at a slaughterhouse where nobody knew where it came from.

Here is a website that shows the associated laws in every province in Canada that has to do with Food Inspection and food safety. It includes all legislation related to the slaughter of animals.

http://www.inspection.gc.ca/english/anima/trans/infrae.shtml

Chenoa · Yearling

Victoria, I wish the US would have enforced laws/rules like that. I feel they should have reported what medications/pesticides that were given to a horse before it was sold at an action barn! I think what upset so many people here, was the fact that well trained, cared for horse's and young were slaughtered, not just (insane) those that couldn't be reconditioned, lame or old. I wish they would have taken a different action then to close all the slaughter houses/plants here in the US! Enforce conditions of horses bought for slaughter and limited how many could be in the US.

kschmittendorf · Well Schooled

My thought...the cause of all slaughter (be it dog, cat, pig, chicken, horse) is the arrogance of the human race. Humans feel that because they are the only sentient beings that matter, other living creatures don't . Humans are rapidly over populating the earth yet no action is taken to curb that because they feel they are "entitled". Just as the Europeans were "entitled" to land and populate the America's, slaughtering the natives. When do we stand back as a not a race, but as living beings, and take a long hard look in the mirror? The cause of all issues, pollution, animal over population, disease, can all be traced back to ONE animal....humans. Just because we can does not mean we should. Read the arrogance in the definition below. Humans made up the word but cannot agree upon "what constitutes awareness". Who are we to say?

Merriam-Webster says the English word "sentient," from the Latin word meaning to perceive or feel, dates back to 1632. It means that something is capable of awareness or physical sensations. However, the definition of "sentient beings" is not agreed on, because it is hard to define what constitutes awareness.

Chenoa · Yearling

I respect your thoughts kschmittendorf....and thank you for sharing them.

I can say there really isn't a need to remind anyone of the slaughter when it comes to the Native Americans..(our military uses that in war, rule of thumb so to speak...easier to take over and control the situation/area). My family was forced down the Trail of Tears. Even that group/race of humans killed to eat. They gave thanks for it. Animals feed upon animals, it is just the cycle of life, atleast they aren't being ripped open by the jaws of a mountain lion, bear etc..., and watching it happen before they pass on. I believe (no one else has to) that God/the creator, finds mercy for his beast, and has a way of giving them peace.

Even humans, when they have so much pain from a tramatic situation their body takes over, they stop feeling the pain, some go into shock, some pass out. Taking all these things into factor, how can anyone believe they suffer the whole time?

Don't forget your meaning perceived back in 1632 was more than likely established by their belief system, could have been based by the bible. Which states They are below us, they are put here for us and when man is done with them God will take them away. The bible also says to go forth and multiple.

Man has continued to set rules for humans and animals. I'm 48 yrs old. with my physical issue's if it wasn't for my children I wouldn't want to continue much longer. I just feel there comes a time we all might wish to move on, instead of enduring pain day after day if your lame..I wouldn't want to be living if I was Insane either...that would be torture in itself. Can't arrogance be found in a human race that feels we should control what is natural/genetic for them to do (multiple)? Instead of putting them through more suffering for those that are lame and insane...to me it would be better to give them that, then to force them to suffer even more. Thats why I suggested guidelines of what could be slaughtered and what couldn't.

VeganVienna · Yearling

I think they should be re-opened. I am a vegan, so my opinion may come as a shock to some people. Although I wish no one ate animals, or used them for other food (milk, eggs, fabric, etc), it is very unreasonable to hope that this will happen. The most we can do is advocate for animal welfare. This means that we raise the standard for treatment of animals. This means using painkillers for castration, branding, etc (it is not required by any farm in Canada, and I'm fairly certain that this holds true for the US), giving them space to graze, not using drugs that make cows gain weight at an unnatural pace that causes sever harm to the animals as well as illness in humans.

I'd rather that an animals dies as opposed to suffers. All animals are equal in my opinion, so whether a horse, cow, pig or hamster is being killed, it should be without fear or pain. Believe it or not, PETA supports kill shelters, not no-kill shelters. They would rather a dog or cat stops suffering, while no-kill shelters do not accept many dogs, who end up abused or starved.

spirithorse · Advanced

VeganVienna

I appauld your statement. Rational thinking is very hard for modern civilized humans. Yet, you show that even someone who does not eat meat can and does think rationally.

Chenoa · Yearling

You can tell by the comments made who is possibly a vegan and who isn't for the most part. I know peta doesn't stop all put downs of animals. But..until someone is able to feel what they feel even as they are given a shot who is to say, which is a better solution? We do it to humans on the death penilty. Some say you are fully aware what is going on..your panicing but can't say or do anything. You can't voice what pain is felt while in that situation. Giving the Rabies shot doesn't stop your animal from getting rabies..but it controls the public panic...No matter how you look at it, or how death is brought on it can't be pleasant.

Since there are other organizations that help peta...and they BUY animals from other countries and bring them to the US since they found it very profitable...I doubt they would stop putting animals down.

US allows each state to determine certain laws. In Oklahoma you must by law have atleast 1 acre per horse. By law in the US we do not allow feeds fed to cattle and horses to have meat by products like some countries do. So Yes there are laws in the USA.

Oklahoma just passed a Breeders law for dogs and cats, the National Humane Society was there to push it through. Now keep in mind the media told everyone this was for Breeders only to control the puppy mills. BUT...again people don't read all the rule and regulations. They didn't know this also meant the general public. It states (which they are still trying to get some things changed around) that if you have one litter of puppies to sell you must have a tax number, you must microchip all the puppies and adult dogs/cats..which I am totally against since it does cause cancer.... more so in some breeds then it does others. What I also tried to warn others of ... this will soon move onto your horses, cattle, chickens etc. They have been trying for a couple of years to control all cattle ...the goverment wants to know where all cattle come from, where they are going, who owns them, etc... Instead of always trying to change the laws to apply more rules they needed to enforce the one's they had. I kept warning others this would hurt our states revenue..no one listened. I said we would lose most of our breeders, they would move out of our state or get out of the biz all together. Well we have had a flood of animals placed into resues, pounds etc...the dog market bottomed out just like it did when they closed the slaughter houses which effected the horse market. People are giving horses away in Oklahoma...everyday, they want to do the same with the dogs, but in the new breeders laws you aren't supposed to give an animal away if it is to a lab...but how do you know? They can lie and pretend they want a loving pet but turn around and take it to the lab and if they find out the dog was yours the state can fine you, and put you into jail even if you are lied to. TOO Much Control is going on!!!!!! I don't want to see good healthy sane animals put down either..I love animals..they give love unconditionally...would we want anyone coming in and telling us or forcing control on if our men lose their family jewels (know some that need to) or a women to have her tubes tied...( know some that should have that done also) but....it starts up additional problems, meds etc...but yet we force our pets to do the same, not having a voice to let us know how they feel about it. (both of my cats are spade) but I felt bad on one hand, and good in the other. This is supposed to be the land of the free. We lose our freedom each day! Also...one point to make regaurding the breeders laws that were passed.. we are losing different stores that opened up in this state...since the horse market bottomed out, we have lost feed stores, farmers can't sell their horses and make money so they can't buy feed right? Can't pay to have them tried, or why bother ...can't sell them anyway! Then you have our pets...so many out there, so many breeders gone, they aren't buying pet products.. lose of jobs...no one has money...yesterday it was told we are losing Barnes and Noble (book stores) why? who is going to buy books when its all on the internet? Who is going to buy them if no one has jobs? we are also in our state alone losing 3,600 post offices..why? cause people don't have the money to buy cards, and mail them ...or they don't have the money to buy gifts to mail them..etc... One action causes an reaction...like domino's...One faulters we all come tumbling down. You can't please all the people all the time. Sadly we cause our own distruction!

Chenoa · Yearling

OOOPs Quote"Can't pay to have them tried, or why bother " meant to type "Can't pay to have them trained, or why bother"

Daniela · Yearling

Here in Ontario, I now see horses being advertised as "to give away". People can buy a horse for less than they would pay for a registered purebred dog - and since the horses are so cheap, people with no experience or knowledge at all can buy them. Heck, they think the purchase is the expensive part. Feeding a good concentrate to colts and fillies, at the current cost of feed? Too expensive. They couldn't tell a good bale of hay from a bad one if a nice green leaf poked them in the eye. Then they wonder why their colts and fillies aren't growing and why is their hair so curly in the winter? Sigh.

If they can buy a 2 year old for $500 or less, it's pretty hard to convince those people that it's worth the money to spend $600-$800 per month for professional training, for 3 months of training. They have all read "The Horse Whisperer" and think they are Pat Parelli (no offense to either Monty Roberts or Pat Parelli). $300 for shots? For a free horse? Not going to happen. Neither is dental work, that's not cheap either. They cannot understand why I would ask for at least $3000 for my AQHA gelding, professionally started, has done pony rides for kids' birthday parties (tolerates large groups of screaming kids), been downtown to give pony rides to kids and adults as a fundraiser, given beginner lessons and shots, teeth, farrier and worming are always up to date. Now being lightly started on barrels ... and he is 8 years old. Why would they pay that kind of money for my nice horse, when they can buy something for a fraction of that?

My horse is not for sale, but I would sure price him UP instead of down if I had to sell, in hopes of getting the best kind of home possible. I will also continue to expand his resume - we never know what can happen to us in the future that may force us to sell and I want him to have the best chances of a good life NO MATTER WHAT.

Do I think the slaughter ban in the U.S. has hurt horse prices up here? Darned straight I do. That downward price spiral has also lead more and more people having horses, who really shouldn't. We all know what will happen to the horse when the idiot owner gets hurt ...

Chenoa · Yearling

Thank you Daniela! You put it in another way, and I am glad that there are others out there that see the problem as I do!

Daniela · Yearling

Can you tell that I am seeing a lot of it? I am finally convincing one person that taking lessons and having their horse trained professionally is an investment IN THEIR OWN SAFETY. It only took me a year ... but finally they are listening to me and got really nice hay this year, and will start lessons in August. After watching my coach/trainer/barn owner tune up a horse, they have now decided that perhaps pro training is the best way to go. I am very glad, for both the people involved and the 3 horses they now have. For every 1 that comes around though, there are at least 10 who will listen to anybody but me. I sure don't get a finder's fee for clients. I'm glad that I am at a professional barn where I am always learning.

Chenoa · Yearling

Wow, Amen again! I have found that there are a lot of people if they have rode a horse once in their life, or had a friend/family that owned a horse that they may have petted, think they know all they need to know about a horse....& don't possibly need to learn anything new. I've owned them all my life...I still learn something everyday..I seek it out! You go girl!

One of the saddest that happened out here ...(small equine community where others can rent pasture w/small barns) a girl brought in 2 arabians...someone she knew was going to have atleast 1 of them put down..they looked like twins except one was older, & way thinner. I always try to introduce myself out here to other people (live out here, they don't..always offer my electricity incase they have a vet out). When it came to talking to the young lady that had these two arabians, she had her nose in the air. So I got where I would smile and go on.... as I passed to keep from making myself a unwanted guest, so to speak. One day the gentlemen that owns all the pasture's (even I lease the land my house is on) He and my husband saw one (the older, thinner mare) was laying down. My husband made mention that it hadn't moved much in the last 24 hrs. When they told me about it, I walked up to check it out....hard to see while it was resting (leggs curled up) but she had gotten stood up for me and I could see she had been wrapped up in wire. I told the land owner, he needed to call the owner of that horse, the mare was cut up and hurt badly, needed medical attention immediately. He called her (she was at work and had to wait for someone to come in and take her place) I waited a bit watching from a distance..didn't seem like they were doing much. I went a head and walked up the hill, only to be greeted by the same snobby attitude. I asked if they found where she had gotten wrapped up....no answer...I started running my eyes along the fence to see if I could see anything...would hate to have the samething happen to another horse of hers. There it was...I pointed it out, again snobby, no responce ..I told her I was sorry this happened and again offered my electricity just incase they needed to do x-rays. After 3 hours of out in the heat working on the mare, they loaded her up...took her away (she loaded into the trailer for them), sadly she didn't make it a hour passed that and died. Now the two remaining horses out here are not getting the hay delivered that was when the thinner horse was here....Haven't seen her out to love, ride, feed nothing. Luckily her remaining horse's share a water tank with the horse's in the next pasture or I fear they may become dehydrated (we have had over 26 days straight over 104 degree weather).

Keep yourself true, I know what you mean about others not wanting to listen at all! One of the girls out here have become my dearest friends...She went through horse after horse, because they scared her. I have told her time and time again, until you get the training you need, you will not be happy with any horse you get. Finally...she got her daughter riding lessons..which helped her to atleast watch her daughter going through the lessons....One of the mare's she owned was one I had owned and knew how well she was trained. You could ride her with nothing on, knew all her p's and q's....leg ques etc. My now friend took several other horse owners that have horse's out here and had them give her suggestions on this mare I had previously owned. They would tell her some of the craziest things. One day I met her at the round pen to watch and to share my thoughts....when I showed her the horse didn't need anything on her head...that her pulling on the reins due to her fear was the cause of the problem (not to mention the bit wasn't put on correctly) she was suprised, and apolygetic to the horse for being (her words) "stupid". I have books that I am happy to share with others out here to at least get them to learn how to read a horse's body laungage...which so many take for granted.

Keep strong Daniela!.... cause if you can get one person to listen you can help save a horse's life, or theirs for that matter!

Daniela · Yearling

Thank you for your support! It can be frustrating BUT you attract more bees with honey than vinegar so ... I can do a lot more for both the horses and people if I exercise a lot of patience . When someone keeps asking the same question you can eventually pull a Dr. Phil and ask "so how's that workin' for ya?". By then they may finally be ready to listen to someone who is in the loop. I sure the heck don't have all the answers, but I can tell ya who to talk to to find them. ;) It helps if you emphasize that they are not spending money on the horse, but on their own safety. Better care for the horse is the cheerful byproduct. :) I make sure always to invite them to my barn to meet my horse and hop on. My coach/trainer/B.O. has been ok with that so far. The more they can spend time at a good barn, the more they learn. By osmosis instead of trying to pound it in ;).If I can help owners be safe, maybe that will help more horses be safe.

Sadly that doesn't eradicate the need for horse slaughter. I am not sure what method is best, however. I've seen some really dangerous horses where the safest thing to do was to put them down instead of sell them on. I don't necessarily agree with euthanasia clinics due to the environmental impact of the drugs involved. I did have to put my first horse down, and I would not hesitate to AGAIN get a sharpshooter to put my horse down. That way I have control over the process, can be with my horse, and I know I am not killing wildlife and poisoning the groundwater. I would never send my gelding to slaughter BUT I live in an area where I have options. Not everyone is so fortunate.

Chenoa · Yearling

I agree...like I said before...who is to say which is the best way, the more humane way... So much waste....and yes my my yes! the people that aquire the free horse's that don't educate themselves before getting one is sad!

Have a great weekend!

Yakkittyyak · Yearling

I thought this might be of interests to the folks in this discussion. Horse Slaughter, is the unthinkable, but apparently only Rational way of disposing of unwanted horses...sad but true. Other ideas? Maybe you should have to pay, say, $500.00 for a "Horse License", like a dog license, when you buy a horse. You can get this money back when you provide proof of humane euthanasia, somewhere down the road...if you Sold the horse, the license would go with the horse (the new owner must pay for it), and he then would hold the "cashable license", providing he follows the strict criteria of what is considered humane (I say Vet's Needle, personally). Thoughts??

Canadian Food Inspection Agency

www.inspection.gc.ca

Transporting Horses in Canada: Is that Animal Fit for the Trip?

Anyone wanting to transport horses for business or personal use must first ensure that the animals are healthy enough to handle the stress of transportation. When in doubt, seek the advice of a veterinarian or contact the CFIA before loading animals.

To help protect horses during travel, transporters must:
•Provide feed, water and rest at required intervals. Horses must not be transported without feed and water for longer than 36 hours, after which they must have a rest period of at least five hours before resuming their journey.
•Provide immediate attention to animals that become unfit for transport, including veterinary treatment or euthanasia at the scene if necessary.
•Use appropriate loading and unloading facilities and equipment, such as chutes with break-out walls, self-aligning loading docks, and ramps that slope appropriately and are properly lit.
•Use suitable vehicles that provide adequate ventilation, non-slip footing surfaces, appropriate bedding and protection from the weather.

Vehicles must also provide adequate space and headroom to allow the horses to stand in a natural position. Transporting horses on double deck trailers does not provide sufficient headroom for most horses. Because of their size, horses over fourteen hands can suffer head or back injuries in these vehicles. Since December 2007, the CFIA and the Canada Border Services Agency have been working together to inspect all loads of horses entering Canada in double–deck trailers for injury or undue suffering.

Everyone responsible for transporting horses must follow Canada's animal transport requirements. The CFIA recognizes that the majority of transporters treat animals with care. The few who do not may face fines or prosecution. As well, imported loads of improperly transported animals may be refused entry into Canada.

In an effort to continually improve animal health protection, the CFIA is consulting with industry and other stakeholders on new regulations that would reflect the latest science and industry practices, clarify the rules of proper animal handling and allow the CFIA to better enforce humane transport requirements.

Originally issued April 30, 2008 (Notice to Industry) Date modified: 2010-04-04

******Note from YAK: The following article was on the same site regarding increased fines for breaking these laws. (We can all keep our fingers crossed that the laws are acually Being Enforced!)

Government of Canada cracks down on livestock transport violators: New regulations more than double fines

OTTAWA, October 27, 2010: The Government of Canada is cracking down on those who mistreat and improperly transport livestock by more than doubling current fines - the first increase in over 10 years. Effective immediately, administrative monetary penalties (AMPs) of up to $10,000 can be imposed, more than doubling the previous maximum penalty of $4,000, on those who violate the Health of Animals Act.

“The agriculture industry knows that a healthy farm and processing business begins with healthy animals and while the majority handles and transports animals safely, a few need to do better,” said Agriculture Minister Gerry Ritz. “Our Government is providing the Canadian Food Inspection Agency with the tools it needs to impose tougher fines and improve animal welfare.”

The CFIA will now be able to impose fines up to a maximum of $10,000 instead of $4,000. The CFIA will retain the ability to increase fines by up to 50% of the maximum fine for repeat offenders. The CFIA will have the ability to look back into the past five years, instead of three years, of the offender’s history. For example, if an offender commits his second very serious violation within five years, the CFIA will now have the ability to impose a fine of up to $15,000, instead of the previous maximum of $6,000.

The AMPs system was developed as an efficient, effective enforcement tool. AMPs may be issued for violations of the Health of Animals Act, which includes requirements for animal welfare during transport. These increases will also be applied to the Plant Protection Act to deal with violations such as the importation of prohibited plants.

In addition to these improved AMPs, the CFIA continues to work with animal welfare experts and industry leaders to update the Health of Animals Regulations governing livestock transportation to reflect the latest science and industry practices.

-- Edited by Yakkittyyak on Friday 11th of November 2011 11:53:10 AM