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Post Info TOPIC: Tennessee Walking Horse Trainer Sentenced to Probation and It's Not Enough!


Grand Prix

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Date: Dec 12, 2011
Tennessee Walking Horse Trainer Sentenced to Probation and It's Not Enough!
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First this guy sores the horse, then he uses a nerve cordin the horse's mouth to trick the Inspectors. What an CRIMINAL!  I mean, I've never even heard of a nerve cord. What will they think of next?? :(

Also, why only two year's probation? Why not jail? Also, what kind of person would even TRAIN with this criminal? I've been reading a lot of pretty depressing stuff about horses lately, but this is really right up there on the list of disgusting.

http://www.thehorse.com/ViewArticle.aspx?ID=19271&src=EM



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Date: Dec 14, 2011
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I remember that the USDA went after soring in the 1970's, over 40 years ago.  But, alas, these TWH trainers and riders like the artificial way of going, and they are too proud of themselves to change.

Whenever people go after the high front end action they run into a problem, except for very, very, very few horses most horses just don't pick their feet high enough naturally.  Then come in the weights in the shoes, the looong hooves (using lots of pads if needed), the soring and other objectionable training methods.

And I fear that the same thing will happen in competitive dressage.  The abusive use of Rollkur is just the beginning, soon there will be a horse with just a little more dramatic front action and all the other trainers and riders will try certain other "new" methods of increasing front action, and someday, inevitably, all the old techniques for high action will be used, just so they can win.

Since the dressage riders have not revolted against this, it is inevitable, just look at the TWH's, ASB's, Shetland ponies, and Hackneys.  No one protested when it started and now even the US government cannot get these people to quit.  If horsemen never protest it grows and grows, because these horses WIN and winning is everything.



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Date: Dec 14, 2011
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Jackie,

I totally agree. I've been following the sad state of the gaited breeds for many years, when I was younger I was fortunate enough to tour a large TWH breeding facility in the US -- it was state of the art and the all of the mares, foals and young horses looked glorious! This was one facility that seemed to have the horse at heart rather than the show winnings. Although I am sure that many of the young horses were sold to trainers and owners who didn't have the same respect for the horse.

Soring is one of those things that is always shoved under the rug, when large shows start to crack down on the competitors who are mistreating the horses than the whole show gets shut down because of the amount of competitors who pull out of the show. If there are so many competitors that pull out of a world show that it puts the show under due to not enough competitors to make it feasible than that tells me a lot about the amount of people who don't see a problem with soring a horse to make financial gains.

This is a really sad topic, among other horse abuse that seems to be raging away in the horse industry. disbelief



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Date: Dec 14, 2011
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Maybe part of the problem is that it is the Tennessee Walking Horse Breeders and EXHIBITORS Association.

I noticed in the Arab breed, in the 1970's and 1980's that the big, big, big name trainers just took over. The accepted type and conformation of the breed was changed to please the trainers, the most prized bloodlines were changed to please these trainers' speculation in horses, and the methods of training and riding were changed so that these trainers would win every time. The older American Arabs, wonderful horses, were not considered "good enough" (and they still are not considered "good enough"), the older American methods of riding and training Arabs all of a sudden were not "good enough" to win, and now the Arabian show horse is turning people off to Arabs. Who in the world would want to ride an Arabian halter winner nowadays?

So the big trainers, big breeders, and main judges in every breed control everything. This is fine as long as these big name people only support humane training, riding, and showing methods. But when their attentions get fixated on a detail or two, there goes the breed, it ends up so that only the people who buy into the abusiveness are customers for horses of that breed.

We are the only ones left who can do anything, and if we are not rich no one listens to us.

Of course, if they wanted to, the people with big bucks who own and show the top horses suddenly adopted practices of good horsemanship everything would be changed tomorrow. Trainers with no horses loose influence, riders who do not win WILL change their riding to win just so they can get that blue ribbon or championship cup.

I do not hold out much hope.

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Date: Dec 16, 2011
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Ok, then I shall take up the challenge and rewrite the federal horse protection act in such a manner that the competitive horse cannot be abused.....am I foolish, oh yes.....might it work, yep......


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deb


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Date: Dec 17, 2011
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Hi

I find everything said here so far to have huge merit!!! Good on all of you for standing up and saying it like it is.

I have been in both riding and racing, and have seen the good bad and the ugly for many years.  A member in my youth of a few protection clubs/agencies in my area, and a long time fighter for the cause of horses, and in particular the stb breed. 

Gaited horses have long suffered people's missuse, as have arabs, in our area there was a huge farm that went world wide and bought a stud that was supposed to be so 'great', and made a huge mostly bull claims about his 'greatness', they gave a partially true history about being imported from rare this and rare that from egypt.  The get from him were underpar, their conformation was substandard, they were the worst rep. of the breed, and gave arabs a bad name in this area that they have not shook to this day.  They so flooded the market with these horses that there were almost no other horses in compition, and so as time went by when the young horses from this sire were proven to be useless and more and more ended up going for slaughter the truth finally showed through.  These people were not in it for the good of the arab like they sold themselves, they were in it for money and that was all.  Horses and people alike suffered from greed and the scam.

What happens to the stb is worse than even that, as they are abused from the day they are broken to the day they are die for the most part.  Stb trainers/drivers are not kind, and most have no love for the horse. Couple that with high costs of keeping horses, and poor attitudes towards this 'throw-away' breed, and you have a recipe for disaster for the stb individual.  If they bow down and do all that they are asked then they are broken quickly, but if not than their lives are hell, if the are the type to lay down as yearlings, they will be kicked and beaten, or tied to a truck/gait and dragged.  If they kick than it is a whip and their tails tied and a kicking chain/strap, if they refuse for any reason-- than it a beating they will get 98% of the time.  Even the softer trainers will go at a horse if they do no 'toe the line' as it is seen as a horse that will not try on the track once racing for any of these infractions.  If they do make the track than many (stb people are starting to realise that turn out is important finally), stb's never get out of their stall except to jog/train/race.  The practice of walking them has almost gone, so they are not allowed to bond with anyone.  If they fail to 'try' on the track than some really horrible practices will be used including electrocution, putting a bag over their head and beating them with whips, chains and prods, and lately a few horsemen have been harnessing them lifting them off the ground with a tractor bucket, with a bag over there head and proding them while they hit them with a whip and yell as if they are in a race.  Never mind the countless people I know that when they train their horse each week start whipping as soon as the hit the 3/4 pole to 'make them come home faster'.  The abuse shoeing, and in the barn is just as bad for many of these horses.  The amount of wierd and dangerous things that they are pre-raced with is horrifying, and if you think that once they leave racing it gets better-- not on your life.  The end result for most is the killers, for the rest the menonites get them and they are used and abused until they are so ruined and broken that they are then sent to the killers, at times I think that it would be kinder for these horses to simply go straight to the killers and avoid the missuse by the menonites.  A vet I know once said on that subjec it was like one drop of blood at a time instead of a 'quick' end!!! this after he stepped in a rescused 4 horses from a menonite.

For the very few they end up with riding people for lesson horses, and private horses, companion horses, these are the lucky few.

Not all stb horses are abused, there are a few good stb owners out there, but they are few.  Even the ones that see themselves as kind are really not... they are just less cruel than their neighbours! 

The attitude towards this noble and kind breed of athleate is that they are throwayway horses, even those that spend huge sums see it this way. 

After years of working with horses I have come to the conclusion that each breed is abused in some pretty horrible ways, but that the race horse world is pretty much up their in the abuse arena!!!

Anyone that speaks up against abuse has my support, good on you, keep it up.  While you can really only affect change one horse at a time, at least your voices are being lent to the issue.  It is better than not trying at all.

In barn of three I have a horse that saw six weeks of abuse as a yearling to get him ready for a sale, when we got him his mouth was bloody from the colt bit, and he has scars on his ears from twitches, and a bad attitude towards strangers that he has never lost-- he is four, a horse that saw the strung up in the harness and beaten and proded method, that was almost dead due to lack of proper vet care, and who hated life so much that he had given up and was ready to die, and a new horse that was loved by his breeders and first owners, but sold due to his lack of effort to people who did something (abuse of some sort we don't know what) and while he did go on to race for them, he now is a run away, and flinches at every movement anyone makes and is ready to bolt at the least sound, like a vet who has seen deadly combat for to long.  This was the same horse that for the orriginal owner was driven all over their farm by a 6 year old child, he is so not safe now from fear that only my husband can jog him in our barn... my dream is that someday I will not be buying horses that have seen so much abuse, and that people will respect all breeds-- and my breed of choice the standardbred- with kindness and respect for the great creatures they are.  I won't hold my breath though!  



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deb


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Date: Dec 17, 2011
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oh yeay,smile the first pic is of my 'gang', from left to right, Tattoo (Da Plane Boss), my husband Joe with our new horse Steal (The Stealth), and Che (Tiocfaidh Ar La)

 



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deb


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and the second is of Che in a qualifying race behind the gate, he is horse in the middle-- the biggest one lol



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Date: Dec 17, 2011
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Part of the problem is that there are too many horses for too few humane horsepeople.
This has happened throughout history.
Once a horse gets into competition, racing, showing or whatever, they become a capital good, to be used up and thrown away like any other capital good.
It is also a variation of conspicuous consumption, horses are expensive, expensive to breed (especially race horses), expensive to raise, expensive to train, upkeep costs a fortune, vet and farrier care can be astronomical, and most of these horses do not "earn" their way, so just throw them away. Proves you are so rich it does not matter to you while at the same time it "proves" that you are a hard-nosed savvy business person, thus not be suspect by the tax authorities of doing a hobby instead of a business.
Sad.


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Date: Dec 18, 2011
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Deb, to bad you are not located in Atlantic Canada, I would love to work under you!

I noticed as I started showing with people from different circuits, that the attitudes of the people are just, terrible. There is no "oh we tried", for the most part the girls are mostly, "Oh My God! That judge is blind. I did so much better than HER. blah blah blah." The attitude is win or nothing. And when winning is top priority, other things get over looked.

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deb


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Date: Dec 18, 2011
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Hi thanks first of all, that is the nicest compliment I have been paid in many a day. smile

In my barn it is horses first, what their needs are, what they want, what is best for them.  It is that simple.  I figure I have to look myself in the mirror each and every day, and if I'm going to do that, then I better treat them right each and every day.  That is not to say that my barn is in chaos, my horses are respectful, and well mannered (Che is a bit of a brat, but he came a killer, so I guess brat is an improvment! lol)  I am just glad that there are people out there that do care for their horses, as the life of an animal is not easy, and most people do not know the meaning of walking in something elses shoes! 

When people put money and preformance above the wealfare of the creature that is supposed to be the 'star' of the sport, than they need to rethink their values.  In riding it is about ribbons, and money is there, but not directly unless you are quite hight up the ladder so it has been my experience that the people that ride for fun, or for the lower classes often are very kind to their horses, that they try to do what is best even if they make mistakes they are trying to do what is right, there are some of course that do not fit this mould, but I'm talking percentages.  The higher up you go, the more that people are in it 'professionally', the more I see the intended cruelty taking place, these are people who know better, who know how to look after a horse, but who chose money and prestige over the wealfare of the horse.  The people in the Tennessee Walking Horses that this guy in question came from is a good example. 

When you put racing instead of riding in the mix, you have another element that is NOT good for horses, that of the gambler.  Most people in stb racing that know the business (I can hardly call it a sport anymore), will tell you that there are four kinds of people in it--, from highest % to least: the gambler that wants the inside scoop-- they get in it when they think that if they own or work with the horses that they will be in on the 'fixes', then there are the people who are just lazy, they want to have an easy job, and see horses as that oportunity, then there are the people who's parents have been doing it forever, or a realitive, and they follow suit, these people fall into the all the other catagories, as well as this one, and lastly the other catagory would be the people who actually like horses, and happen to like racing so put the two together, or who like me are not independently wealthy and love stbs, so put the breed they love with a way to help pay for them.

The problem is that horses run faster for fear than kindness for the most part, lets face it they are flight animals which is what we are tapping into everytime we ask a horse to run fast, and not just in racing.  People aren't stupid, they are sly enough to know this and the cruel ones, in my case in the first two and often first three catagories will use this.  The fact is the Black Stallion is not much in reality as far as why horses will put out the maximum effort on the track.  Even most horses that I have had that would be classified as triers have been seriously abused before I have owned them, the ones that it works best on are usually dark coloured horses, and often if bad enough the fear that is beaten into them will last a lifetime.  Mares are harder to get to try this way, as are studs, so that is why most people in stbs geld horses, and why they steer clear of mares if they can.  

So all in all, money makes most people in this world do things they should not, and in our case in the horse world, where as I think someone else has said, horses are expensive, horses are the loosers where the choice of money over principal takes place.  And I can attest that racing in particular is costly-- when the money in Ontario went up, the cost rose even higher, everyone wanted their cut!!! no 

take care,

good luck to you Emiry, hope you enjoy your horse journey, it is a ride of a lifetime if you love horses!!!  I have been at it since I was 9, and am 41 now.  I think there is nothing else in this world like a horse, they capture your heart and your imagination, give us wings and make us dream and truly see life from a different and wonderful point of view.  For those of us that get this, horses are wonderful, for those people who don't get this, I don't know why they stay in it, there are easier ways to make a dollar!!!

Deb

Tiocfaidh Ar La Stable.

ps. pic of Che 

 



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deb


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Date: Dec 18, 2011
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Emiry, also love your pic!!!



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Date: Dec 20, 2011
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deb - thank your for your account of the standardbred world - it is truly heartbreaking......I have only ever been to a standardbred track once for a 'horse function' -- a banquet. I remember watching through the window as a horse that had just raced and was steaming was being made to stand for photos...and I kept thinking 'why has no one thrown a cooler over that poor animal' it was a cold drizzly night...
The whole 'scene' was about the people it seemed to me...- the horse a means to an end...

The abuse of horses is rampant - from local schooling shows to international grand prix...- I saw horses at a local dressage show going around in the warm up so over-bent.....and it's accepted...- the norm... Horses...- they are to me so beautiful - inside and out....so kind and generous (in general) and so mis-used...so disregarded....and dismissed -- we as a species are so indebted to them...but for so many they are 'just a horse' - 'just a means to personal glory'.
Though after reading Debs account - once again I'm so over-whelmed by the cruelty humans are capable of..sickening cruelty...no other species behaves like this...and I don't believe we are like this because of our 'superior' intelligence...I believe it is because we are upright, have opposable thumbs, and our veneer of 'civilization' is easily shrugged from our primate shoulders -- case in point...Vancouver, B.C. hockey riots, - or any number of large gatherings...where a catalyst was/is present...  I believe people do these heinous things because they can -- and there is little to stop them...



-- Edited by Goatgirl on Tuesday 20th of December 2011 07:24:00 PM

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Someone on the forum asked why a owner would permit a trainer to use these training methods and I'll tell you that those owners just want to win at the shows.  When the judges quit pinning the sore lick they will quit soring horses. 



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