Are people right to focus so much negativity on rollker?

Gary Stuart · Well Schooled

Are people right to focus so much negativity on rollker?

justice · Grand Prix

Rolkur is something that can be acted on, or against, with more foreseable results. Slaughter, for one, is going to take a little longer.

There is plenty going on that really IS outright wrong and it would be nice to be able to triage and affect but, good luck regulating human nature.

-- Edited by justice on Monday 15th of November 2010 09:34:47 AM

spirithorse · Advanced

Rolkur is detrimental the health and welfare of the horse!
It causes tetanic contractions of the neck and shoulder muscles and appears to inhibit breathing.

Jackie Cochran · Advanced

Yes.
Rollkur is a horrible symptom of a horse culture that makes horses into animate machines. It used to be extremely tight bearing reins, or spurs that bloodied the sides of the horse, or excessive whipping, brutal bits that injured the horse's mouth, any number of problems that de-humanize a horse leading directly to dumping the ruined horses off to go to slaughter. Now it is soring in the big-lick TWH world and Rollkur in many different disciplines (among other abuses. )

Different aspects of the same problem. If we don't go after all of them abuse will continue.

Barbara F · Grand Prix

Jackie, I'm glad you mentioned soring. Can you explain it to me a bit? from the little I know, it seems to be a barbaric practice.

Jackie Cochran · Advanced

The TWH big lick trainers sore their horses by rubbing in an irritating salve, often with mustard (?) on the back of the horse's front pasterns. Repeated use of the soring agent can result in blisters and open oozing sores. I think this is done whenever the trainer/rider wants to train for the big-lick or shows in a class demanding the big-lick.

Janet B · Yearling

What does"big lick" mean? Also, wouldn't there be evidence of soring that the show officials/vets could look for, just as show stewards check bits and spurs and dressage shows?

Jackie Cochran · Advanced

The big lick is the Tennessee Walking Horse supreme show gait. It is a running walk where the horse's front legs go high and reach out forward. At the same time the horse is engaging hind legs way under the body and the hock joint looks more bent than usual, making the croup MUCH lower. The audiences often get really excited seeing the horses do the big lick.
The Agricultural Dept. has inspectors that go to the shows. They look for the physical symptoms (blisters and open sores), and also use thermal imaging to detect excess heat. I have read that when the Feds show up often exhibitors leave before even competing.
The government has been working on this for decades. Some people just seem to prefer the big lick movement to obeying the law that was developed to protect their horses from this abuse. I am prejudiced, I do not like the big lick movement.

Lauren · Foal

Rollkur and its companion non engagement of the hind quarters will utimately reflect badly on dressage. The classical traditional way of schooling, that worked with the horse and not against, will become obsolete because the ribbons will not be rewarded to the horse that is perpendicular or slightly ahead with engagement and schwung. Dressage already has critics outside the discipline because of the percieved extreme contact. I wish we could slow down the training and not follow fads.

KatyM · Well Schooled

Since it's a little difficult to explain what the 'big lick' walking horse gaits look like, here is video of the biggest 'big lick' annual championship:

http://www.barnmice.com/video/2009-twh-celebration-stake

I've posted this on Barnmice and would request any discussion take place here rather than on YouTube. Thanks.

cracker · Foal

judges affect training, people train for ribbons, the welfare of horses is in judges hands. only when judges reject abusive results will the industry get better.

Jackie Cochran · Advanced

I agree with you totally Cracker.
If judges did not reward this behavior it would disappear QUICKLY in the dressage competitions. And if the judges disqualified every horse that went behind the bit/behind vertical I think that Rollkur for training would also quickly disappear.
After all people want to win or have high scores.

spirithorse · Advanced

PROTEST - PROTEST

Competitors are cowards and will not protest bad riding and judging.
So International Federation of the Horse will do so...........

cracker · Foal

follow the money, organizations want to sell tickets, and get sponsors, if equine welfare suffers, so be it. organizing bodies that say they have the horses' well being in mind, usually put the organization's wellbeing first. so tell sponsors that support abusive standards and judging what they are doing, they probably aren't aware. members of organizations must voice an opinion, they need your membership. money talks, BS walks.

Nikki Salo · Grand Prix

I think Cracker totally summed it up for me with "judges affect training, people train for ribbons, the welfare of horses is in judges hands. only when judges reject abusive results will the industry get better." That is exactly how I feel, I stopped showing in Western Pleasure when the judges started to pin incorrect movement displayed by horses loping sideways (facing the rail) and excessive lowering of the head. We're starting to see a change now in the ring for the better, but until they consistently place horses that are moving in a natural gait, I don't see the point in showing Western Pleasure.