I mostly use my whip on MY leg, just to make a sound.  This way the horse gets the message (time to move out) and I don't feel guilty about hurting the horse.
If that is not enough I occasionally give a LIGHT tap right behind my leg.

Just like spurs, the point of carrying a whip is just to have it there, not to use it.  The horse notices the whip and hopefully pays a little more attention to me and then I don't have to use it at all.

By the way, when I buy a whip I try it out on my leg so I can buy the whip that makes the most noise with the least pain.  After all most of the time I use it I hit myself with it to make a noise.  I get odd looks from the other customers but the horses I ride appreciate my consideration. 

I agree that full force whipping is futile and cruel.  If the rider just uses light taps I do not see much harm, but that all depends on the horse's reaction to it.  If the horse objects to me carrying a whip or tapping him with a whip I stop carrying one.

Very well said dbliron.

In total accordance with dbliron, they summed up how I feel about using whips and spurs pretty well.

I would like to add in my two cents on whipping horses for speed though, IMO it doesn't make a horse faster (as mentioned in the video, it actually makes your horse become round or into a frame, which makes a racehorse or any horse at speed slower as suggested). From my experience riding barrel horses, and retraining horses off the track, if you want to try for an edge at the end of a run (barrels or racing), you swap to a fresh lead if possible and allow the horse to stretch out (hence winning by a nose). Giving a barrel horse the "over and under" never seemed to make it faster (nor did booting it with spurs, same result), but properly setting the horse up out of the final turn, on a fresh lead, and allowing the horse to stretch for home is key, but this is just what has worked for me in the past.

To get back on topic of whipping racehorses, which I am totally against because it is painful, ignorant and poor horsemanship (as with whipping any horse without a valid reason), but allowing the jockeys to tap the horse on the shoulder with the whip to get a fresh lead on the final stretch for home, I believe is a benefit to the horse, because you can't really get your leg on the horse to ask for the change, but some of the horses I have worked with off the track were trained to switch leads with a tap on the shoulder.

Just my thoughts on the subject

I do not wish to sound as tho I am promoting whip use in racing, racing and ITS 'laurels' are a 5693 page topic by itself, just would like to offer that by the time the jockey goes to the whip, it's late in the game, the endormorph/adrenaline flow is pretty high in him AND the horse and the horse feels little pain, more a sharp, breif sensation that, used correctly (and legally: strictly no more that 6 consecutive smacks but I think that is far more than enough)  let's him know to keep the forward, time to dig in, find the rest and go. Again, and at the risk of being redundant, the whip is only as bad, or as good, as the delivery and purpose.

I am not a whip fan but accept that there are times when it is needed and I have ridden with one for that extra 'word' of communication. MY use of a whip and what I teach is the whip/spur being for speed of response, clarification, to encourage use of a specific limb or end in early training, adding an element to an already multi-tasking horse, not so much MPH.

And, not to mention this old chestnut of proverbial wisdom: it all depends...

I have used a jumping bat sharply out on course and this might sound a bit weird but hear me out, if you will. I was afraid NOT to on a few occasions since to clear a fence SAFELY, I really needed my horse to give it his all and with no doubt.  A demand for total trust. Overzealous in application, yes but not deliberately so, albeit that is no excuse. I was unsure for both of us. Some day I might forgive myself but it very possibly made the difference between clearing a late fence on a long course and becoming a pool of whatever on landing. It was about conveying the IMPORTANCE of making the effort PURE, NOW, with NO question. Out on course, hell, just ON a horse (during competition/training), there is rarely time for a tea and crumpet chat over activities, behaviour and ways of going.

-- Edited by justice on Thursday 10th of February 2011 09:15:41 PM

-- Edited by justice on Thursday 10th of February 2011 09:18:00 PM

-- Edited by justice on Thursday 10th of February 2011 09:18:40 PM

The biggest obstacle that I can see in the clarification, mgt and ruling of artificial aids or ancillary equipment (bitless bridles : ) is the virtual impossibility of regulating human nature.

Hi
I come at this from someone who has two stbs.  I have been in horses for 30 years, and 20 of them in stbs.  I have ridden with and without a whip, and find that different horses require different approaches.  I use it on my leg for requestes of good behaviour, and I will use it as an 'extra' body part to help me have the horse understand what I want, but I first find out what I can tollerate with any whip, and then hit the horse no harder than I can take without pain, and I am a whimp! lol

In riding, I have seen the gamit, and think that abuse in any form should not be tollerated.  As an aid, as direction the whip is fine, but more than that I do not agree with.

As to racing this is a whole other thing.  It should be banned plain and simple.  In the streach where in most places it is only allowed in stb racing it does no good as the horse is too tired for it to mean anything to it at that point.  The horse is used up and so numb it does often not know where it even is until it is back in the paddock after the race.  For those horses that don't try, they will sometimes go for a whip early in the mile, and by the stretch they no longer care either.  Also horses learn where the streatch is, and for the non-triers they will the odd one go at this point... but their is a bigger picture here... the whip is cruel, and should not be allowed, simple-- it is bad publicity for any new fans that love horses.  Also for the non-triers, if there was no whip they would not be racing (as it would not be finacially benifical to keep these type of horse), and they would not be therefore bred, and would not pass on these genetics... so you would be left with horses that do try without the whip.  Also, the whip has a far more sinister use in racing than most people know about.
In harness racing it is common to 'stall train' horses.  They are tied up or suspended and their eyes are blindfolded usually with a harness bag, but anything else will do that keeps them from seeing, and then they are beaten, proded or electrocuted in many other ways.  The whip is cracked, either to make noise (if hydro is used) or on them and the person yells as they would in a race.  The idea is to trigger the flight response, while the horse cannot flee, and so much fear be put in them, that when they are on the track they will run to the death to get away from the horror of someone with a whip and the associated noise of extreme cruelty and the whip.  If you try any of these things where the horse can see you, or while on the track it does not elict the same response as the fear of the unknown is far, far greater.  The fear for a flight animal to be tied and not able to get away is incredibly trumatic to them, as anyone that has seen a horse get caught up in something and work to free itself can attest.

It is no wonder than that the stb horse has the highest ratio of stomach ulcers, and other stomach issues realted to racing.  Take them from the track and all their stomach issues seem to fade???!
It is a fact that the Racing Commission know that this is often the real reason that horsemen want the whip to remain, it is the stb dirty little secret of what really happens.  The Commission is made up of friends, family and previous horsemen.  So if you ask yourself if this will change, the answer is no... since the game is dirty from the top down and the bottom up.  I have tried to change racing, and ended up walking away after a law suit against them.  If racing were to be ended today I would be happy despite the fact that I race horses.  The whip is just one really horrible factor as to the cruelty that these horses endure.

So my opinion is that the whip should be banned.

Slan go foille,

Deb McDaid
Tiocfaidh Ar La Racing/Ridding Stable 

I like what everyone else is saying. If I were racing (barrels, etc.) the horse or pony that I ride they would buck me off no doubt if I whipped them to make them go faster in a second. Some people around here beat their horses constantly which is find is horrible and we still beat them when we do show gaming (I haven't touched my horse when gaming).

On the other hand if my horse is disobeying me and not moving off of my legs, I will hit them with the crop. I ride a stubborn lazy mare who would rather not do things. She is an amazing jumper but it sounds like a lot of work to her. lol She loves jumping but to get her moving on the flat I carry a dressage whip and use it a couple times per ride to remind her. (Jumping I use a smaller crop so I don't accidently hit her) Also when she is disobeying me I will hit her and when she has her "fits" I will hit her harder but I will not flat out hit her over and over.

We have a problem with leaving the driveway to go on trail rides and I cannot use a crop or whip or she will be even worse.

Don't get me wrong this horse is amazing I love her to death, shes a challenging ride which I like and I just have to use a crop or nothing works. We fall apart and get nowhere. I also do use spurs sometimes when she has her days lol I don't poke her all the time just to get my point across and then done with them. Gotta love stubborn mares.

I agree with Eventing101. There is a time and a place for whips and they should never be used as punishment. If you look at horses in a herd situation, they will bight kick and wave their heads or their butts at each other. They're not very gentle with one another. I look at the whip as akin to a nip from another horse. I use a dressage whip with my warmblood gelding to remind him that he's got legs trailing out behind and to bring them under him for things like downward transitions. For jumping, either x-country or stadium, I'll use it sometimes as a tap on the shoulder or behind my leg to say, either, pay attention, or yes you are going over this. Sometimes horses need a little reminder of their job. I don't consider any of these uses to be "whipping" my horse and with a warmblood especially, I find that the horses shut down rather than go forward which is what's intended.

I did however have the sickening experience of allowing a trainer to beat my horse around the ring when he didn't respond immediately to his leg. I watched while he galloped around hitting him in the head and elsewhere with the whip. It's now taken me two years to bring this horse's confidence back up again. I trusted that this guy knew what he was doing. Now that I know more about riding this type of horse, I just feel sick that I let him anywhere near him. Big horses are often intimidating to riders and some think that you have to assert dominance over them and I think that's what happened with this trainer.

I wont ride a horse without a dressage whip when its in training. A small tick-tick-tick with the end of a dressage whip behind you leg is far more effective, and far more gentle than digging your heels in to a 'leg dead' horse (which is a result of constant banging and bad riding). It teaches an immediate and smooth reaction, and respect for the leg.

Its a crucial training aid, especially when training from the ground. My horse learnt laterals from the ground with the aid of a dressage whip before I did anything from his back.

I agree - a whip should NEVER be used as punishment - but I think within reason as encouragement to move forward or as an extension of the arm or leg isnt a problem.

If I'm riding out, and Lorenzo decides to get 'scared' of the horse-eating-monster-pile of rubbish on the roadside and tries to turn and bolt back he gets a semi-decent smack behind the leg to get him to move forward. He walks back past the same pile of rubbish coming home with not even a second glance. He was never actually scared but simply trying it on. It doesnt hurt him, he's not emotionally scarred and he still calls and trots to the gate when he sees me arrive.

Whips dont hurt horses - PEOPLE hurt horses, those who abuse whips.

There are far bigger forms of abuse in the racing industry to focus on, than a whip to the shoulder.