Parelli Bucked Off at Big Event

Gary Stuart · Well Schooled

Parelli Bucked Off at Big Event

justice · Grand Prix

I don't know any rider that HASN'T been publically dumped at one time or another if they've ridden enough horses, spent enough time out there. The satisfaction/entertainment factour perhaps is in how EASILY he seemed to be unseated. And that even a basic eye could see it coming....

justice · Grand Prix

Hey, Nikki, we evidently shop at the same clothier : ).. I have invested in one way tickets off course more than once myself.

Marlene · Advanced

You don't need an audience to get dumped. I specialize in unplanned dismounts while solitary trail riding, since I got my spooky Arab a little over a year ago. My helmet has paid for itself but I would have had a lot less pain if I'd worn body armor. (p.s. can't blame him for being an Arab, it was the alfalfa in his diet made him do it. He's on bread and water now)

-- Edited by Marlene on Thursday 3rd of March 2011 10:25:04 AM

justice · Grand Prix

Too true that an audience is not necessary! LOVE the naughty little Arabians : ). Got one in my yard now, the Imp.. bored without him : )

Hoti47 · Well Schooled

There's just something about getting chucked off by an arab that really say's "you're in the club"

Marlene · Advanced

First instant dismount with this guy I landed on my feet. The other two not so lucky. I would definitely recommend the landing on feet. It got to the point where each day I said that little prayer of Oprah's. The one that goes: "Lord, please don't teach me anything new today". I learned more than he did this summer. He's a tough teacher. I think he was just trying to earn my respect.

-- Edited by Marlene on Tuesday 8th of March 2011 01:19:22 AM

justice · Grand Prix

Or teaching you to earn his : ) Horses. Not for the faint or weary, right? Landing on feet: GOOOD thing!! Landing on butt: regular thing : )

Marlene · Advanced

Pretty difficult to land on feet with reins. But I did have my reins when I landed on butt both times. I don't fault my horse if I land on the ground, but I'd be seriously pissed if he ran away and I had to fetch him or walk home. My theory is, if you can stay on eventually when the horse pulls a prank,and then still make them do what you wanted, that's when you get their respect.

-- Edited by Marlene on Tuesday 8th of March 2011 11:30:43 AM

-- Edited by Marlene on Tuesday 8th of March 2011 11:32:21 AM

-- Edited by Marlene on Tuesday 8th of March 2011 11:33:09 AM

dbliron · Advanced

I actually managed this, once in my life.

I was riding hand gallop in a Show Hack class, and another horse bolted and ran into my horse. My horse bucked really hard, and I flew over his head, hit the end of the reins, somersaulted, and landed on my feet still holding the reins and staring into my horse's totally shocked face. The judge told me he'd never seen anything like it.

I scrambled back into the tack while the rest of the group was still trying to halt, and finished off the class. People asked me later why we hadn't won the class, and when I told them I'd been ditched big-time in the middle of it, they were stunned. I guess it all happened very fast...

Jennifer Lamm · Yearling

The video won't load.... :)

shaiarabs · Well Schooled

video wont load as they took it off, due to copyright

barnfrog · Advanced

They took it off because the people who put on the 'how quick can you train the horse' event want to sell video, and likely because PP was irritated. What it showed was a willing horse which PP decided he wanted to spin (like western reining). The horse (remember ridden for about two hours total, if that) stated to do it for about three spins, and then he lost it and said 'get off!!!" (in a big way). I think to present a horse going from unhandled to ridden in two to three two hour periods (to the cheering masses of weekend ridrs) is HORRID. It is about as far from true horsemanship as we can get (no matter how clever the riders). Just mho.

Equos sanos · Yearling

Darn dident get to watch that video Ive seen my share of PP and PNH in my few years to say he had it coming probebly som other horse told this one to mess him up abit for what hes done to horses over the years.
This man was one of the starters in those events you get a wild horse and you get them ridden in a very short time. In sweden its called animal abuse I don't know what its called over seas.
Its like that hobbling he did last time he was in england horrid to say the least.

justice · Grand Prix

Parelli calls it business. I call it bu.....well, I am sure you get my drift. Might be that initially these folks and others like pp really DID have the horse's best interest in mind but 15 minutes and the almighty dollar won out. PP sold out for personal gain (not always wrong if the greed is minimal and no-one gets hurt..). I personally don't see his actions as anything other than gross and deliberate betrayal at this point (not that I have seen any genuine, earned trust between the dude and ANY horse..). Can't call yourself a trainer in my space if you use/treat horses as expendable and secondary.

PP, good luck selling your "stuff" WITHOUT a horse : )

Sorry for the rant, I am obviously not a fan. This is an awesome forum. I will not deface myself further by relaying how I REALLY feel about this whole NH trend.

coloradocowgirl · Well Schooled

The video won't load, however I definitely agree with justice that everyone who rides a lot publicly will eventually get dumped in front of a bunch of people. I'm not satisfied really, I don't know why anyone would be. I personally am not a Parelli fan, but I think it's kind of crazy how much some people seem to truly despise him. He definitely is a big sellout, and I really doubt that he and Linda are in it for 'making the world a better place for horses and people' anymore, or for that matter, I don't think they've really cared about the horses for a long, long time. I think he's also made some very poor training decisions lately, and obviously, he's starting to lose his touch with the whole staying in the saddle thing.

Barnmouser Ash · Grand Prix

The video was removed because he/people at the clinic threw a fit about copyright matters ;)

I agree, though. :) For the sake of saving this from becoming a Parelli bashing thread, I will just say that I agree. :)

darkhorserunning · Well Schooled

cheers to that i fell for the whole nh horse thing it lasted one whole day for me, i belive it has been way over branded they are not selling advice or methods they are selling product, any way as for hobbling we do it all the time with every horse i start, i swear by it, but to do it proper is one thing, and safely for the horse and person, just one good example of a hobbled horse thank god he was use to being hobbled, we had a horse lose it on a trail ride and jump in to a old pasture and procede to run into the local junk mans, yard while clearing a small gate and bush he landed in a old tangled rusted web of barb wire took one small step and froze he stayed that way while it took us two hours to cut him out he walked away with two small scratches, and one extra side note and interesting fact, hot wire tangles just as bad as we had to cut a yearling bison calf out of some horse fence once.

Geoffrey Pannell · Well Schooled

I'm not a big fan of PP, but I think it's a bit rough to read some of the comments about his fall. We all come off !! Some more than others, hell, I came off one only the other day. I've got two breakers in at the moment and I'll be pleasently surprised if I don't come off at least one.
As for falling off easily, well I've had some very easy falls, trotting along and wham in the dirt!!

Barnmouser Ash · Grand Prix

Geoffrey, you make a good point. I think sometimes some of us have speedy, sharp tongues, just because our general opinion of the persons involved is not very high. :) I'm still not a PP fan, though ;) Haha.

justice · Grand Prix

I expect more from one who thinks so strongly (and publically) that they have something worth selling.

-- Edited by justice on Saturday 23rd of April 2011 09:41:08 PM

darkhorserunning · Well Schooled

lol yes sharp, i do not think its funny that he fell off, just a saying my grandpa use to say, if you
never fell off a horse you have never really rode....

justice · Grand Prix

The fact that he went off, in the public eye or not, easily or not, is moot. If one rides, one will go off, sooner or later. No shame or lie in that. The point, for me, that he brought it on himself, again, by taking a horse well past his limits, AGAIN, and KNOWS that! is where I continue to fail in my respect for him.

-- Edited by justice on Sunday 24th of April 2011 07:27:28 AM

Barnmouser Ash · Grand Prix

Insert "I agree with Justice" stamp here. -- It would be one thing if he would admit his wrongdoing in the way he was dealing with the horse, but instead he and Linda seem to continually claim they are doing things 'the right way' and that they have the best techniques.

Well, clearly ya don't ;)

darkhorserunning · Well Schooled

that is what happens when you sell clouds and rainbows and yes agree they should be saying that they are pushing the horse to far, but when you sell a product or brand, the real reason is money,...... quick fact how about mr montey roberts and his nerve lines/ rope? they all have faults as they are just people, i do not belive that there is only one way to break a horse nor is there just a right way to do it, on some horses the methods you used on the last may not work the same etc, also i love as a response to their products and teaching you have, many followers out their doing the same if the horse beating incident did not clue people in i am sure that may be this has become a somewhat cult fallowing.

sedonasilver · Advanced

I think the product sells it self. Its not anthing particularly new...just well marketed in 'horsemanship for dummies' to which most people can relate.

And no one can dispute that it hasnt helped horses and riders more so than any other training phenomeon. No one is perfect.

darkhorserunning · Well Schooled

what product a rope halter? lol all the stuff they sell other than the rubbish they spew has been around for years,...

Laura F · Well Schooled

Wow, take a look at this video. Someone has taken quite an anonymous swipe at Parelli. Let's see if it stays up.

http://www.xtranormal.com/watch/12039681/parelli-people

sedonasilver · Advanced

Darkhorserunning - just because he was the first to put it on a DVD and sold it doesnt make it any less effective . There's a bit more to it than just 'rope halters' hun. The results speak for themselves. I'm hardly a die hard fan but I like the way he explains it and makes it easy to follow.

darkhorserunning · Well Schooled

I know it is more than rope halters i was being sarcastic,,,, as for videos it is amazing how many people are horse experts after watching them, my friend always buys problem horses, he is an old cowboy.. he takes his time and restarts these horses with time and patiance,common sense, he will tell you a 99 out of a hundred times that most of the horses that he gets are from such people, he has even got a guy that he gets a horse from about every six months from as the horse in the video and the one he trains step by step in the video never turn out right, old man told him to get a tractor and tear down the round pen and burn his stick and throw away all the rope halters he has and just buy a broke horse. thus said he decided just to buy another horse and start all over again but with another mans dvds.....

sedonasilver · Advanced

Well I hardly think general human stupidity is a failing of the 'Parelli' system. You cant buy a recipe book and call yourself a Chef.

You wouldnt go and by a book on high level dressage and assume you can ride your horse like that without further assistance/training. The same as the saying, "A good rider does not, a horse trainer, make!"

Sounds like your breaker is likely to see are the mistakes made from people with good intentions attempting to break in their own horses, or fix major problems in horses themselves, and just make it worse. Those advanced training dvds are just that - for people with experience etc I very much doubt that the 7 games, freestyle and liberty work is going to do ANY damage to a horse - which is what most people get involved with when they 'do Parelli'.

My breaker and good friend, who also practices old school natural horsemanship (but hes uses hobbles, and sometimes even collar roping in severe problem cases - quick everyone, lets go and lynch him!), teaches all his clients how to play the 7 games during the weeklong 'handover' of the horse to its owner. Its valuable groundwork, explained in an easy way. And it results in fewer issues with ground manners that he has to go and fix for the owners at a later date.

I also know Parelli breakers who do a GREAT job with their horses, but of course, when you have a problem horse things get difficult and you have to get a bit creative and sometimes a bit 'mean'. Thats why every one has a sook when Pat Parelli gets tough on a horse - because its such a shock. They forget he's still a horse breaker.

In a world where we are surrounded by so much marketing and methods, it is wise to investigate thoroughly, make educated decisions and keep an open mind. 2 horse people, 3 opinions. Its stupid to follow anything with blind faith and dedication. There is nothing wrong with the Parelli system, just stupid people who misuse the information provided.

justice · Grand Prix

ANY system/method of equine training that professes IN PRINT to be so foolproof as to eliminate the need or common sense of helmet use is pretty much an epic laugh in my book : ) And it's not at all about the helmet, wear one/don't wear one, individual choice so far. It is about the arrogance of thinking/believing/trying to convince others that one's control and ability over a horse can be so absolute if you just drink THEIR koolaid. THIS, posted on their website two-three weeks before lp goes off her dressage mount, concusses due to no helmet, ALSO plastered all over their site. Point? It WILL happen to anyone any time. Always has, always will regardless of training method. Just plain ignorant to think that absolute control over anything alive is remotely possible.

If this system works for someone, that's great for them and even better for the horse! and for some, it does. But there are plenty of folks out there that have never felt nor will they ever feel the need to buy/apply the costly array of p stuff to any horse and yet are still somehow quite accomplished, consistent in their success and effective in their humane training/teaching, even wealthy. A bit far reaching to class all of THEM as "stupid." Some think p has become a genuinely certifiable nutbag, that does not make them bad or others better. MOST folks ran off to see the wizard when he first professed talent, even *I* did! and at the beginning he actually had something viable to offer. We ALL were interested in a better way! Fact is, better than half soon found a better, more affordable way elsewhere. P is smart enough, I give him that: marketing to those that can't yet recognize the inconsistencies in his approach, among a handful of others, IS foolproof for him, so far.

Sedona, hun, clarify to me the system presented in lp's video with the one-eyed horse on the longe tape, I am 'specially interested in the purpose or desired effect of allowing the horse to nearly run into a tree. Catwalk's catastrophe in Europe, last year? I would like to hear why, after two hours of videoed poor management, no positive results were achieved, an accomplished high level horse virutally digressed. What do YOU think caused p's most recent dump after frightening/confusing/pissing off an alleged green horse, in public, again, at another one of his "train-offs". And how can all THAT be misused?? Translate it, and do it in such a way as to validate their actions. Tell me why I would want to or should approach any horse in the same manner. I have little faith in some of his methods since they don't seem to work all that well for HIM! There are closed minds, sure, also experienced ones as there is also tunnel vision.

Getting "mean" and being patient and clear are two totally different approaches. Both effective, one resulting with bonus activities, one with, how dull and trivial.... fun. I don't see mean as necessary with ANY horse. Clear and firm, yes. Mean, not so much. People in a constant rush and or lacking confidence get mean. I accept that "mean" is a relative term. I thought the whole natural horsemanship plague was to help us rise ABOVE mean, eliminating the need for it anyway. Yup, I am stoooopit and proud of it, worked hard to get here : )

-- Edited by justice on Monday 16th of May 2011 11:59:08 AM

sedonasilver · Advanced

Aaah, you know what? It doesnt matter. :)

I had written and posted a big long reply, but in all honesty - we all just want to do the best by our horses and how we choose to do that is up to each individual.

Love your ponies :)

-- Edited by sedonasilver on Monday 16th of May 2011 10:17:14 PM

-- Edited by sedonasilver on Monday 16th of May 2011 11:15:17 PM

-- Edited by sedonasilver on Monday 16th of May 2011 11:16:06 PM

sedonasilver · Advanced

Oh and for the record, i wasnt calling people who dont use Parelli stupid. Quite the opposite - I meant the idiots who buy Parelli and suddenly think they're horse trainers without needing any further experience.

justice · Grand Prix

Sorry I missed your post! You are an intelligent young lady, I appreciate your style : )

I admit being enticed by the "....nothing wrong with P system, just...." sentence : )

I also must own that I know my opinions are strong and directly stated. I genuinely asked for clarification. As strong as I might be in opinion, I am just as fast to change it if given a solid enough rationale.

-- Edited by justice on Tuesday 17th of May 2011 06:18:47 AM

darkhorserunning · Well Schooled

I belive there is NO one way to train a horse as they are all different, some things will work with one and the next it will not, it think people should be, be more worried about stopping the promotion of abuse and ill treatment of animals rather than is who is right. I am sure everyone has been enticed by the nH movement, to be better to their animals, which can not be a bad idea, but i think a person that takes one clinic is not going to see the whole picture.I think it is funny that people can make statements about people, pushing horses, when at one point some one has hit that point at one time or another, i think for clinic purposes this horse was rushed, as i am sure any normal person can do, so summurize He should have explained that he pushed it too far, but most people could probably see this as his ass was on the ground, i can see embarassment being a big factor here.

sedonasilver · Advanced

Thanks Justice, I respect your opinions, and recognise that each person is entitled to them. I just realise that sometimes its not worth even getting involved. I shouldnt have allowed myself to be drawn in by close minded comments with no basis of fact behind them. I enjoy a nice involved conversation as much as the next person - but find that everyone is an suddenly an expert on the internet. Some people actually ARE knowledgable (such as yourself) - others just spout rubbish they've heard from the big kids at pony club.

Anywho, I'm outta this conversation. Happy trails :)

Jackie Cochran · Advanced

EVERY hunt seat trainer I've read emphasises that the first work should be done in a QUIET evenvironment, otherwise the horse is too distracted and cannot learn as readily. No cheering crowds, no loud music (soft, low volume classical is fine), no bright lights flashing and moving around, and definitely no amplified loud voices.

I know these events can bring in big bucks but they are hardly the ideal venue for doing any serious training.

Of course the horse misbehaved, overcome by bright lights, LOUD sounds, and then this strange person pulling him around and not giving him time to think things through, if I was a horse I would have ditched him too. Nothing personal, it just would be too much for me if I was a horse.

darkhorserunning · Well Schooled

lol that was a great way of explaining it lol, but i have to add it is not the horse getting paid for the performance and clinic so maybe he decided to take the day off lol, just bugging this issue is way over, people make mistakes, not everyone is perfect, and lmao @ pony club comment which comes across as plain rude, i have never been part of a pony club but am sure they are there to educate in some way, at this point the horse world needs more riders and less pompus i think i am better than everyone people, that actually turns people away from the shows and actual riding of horses due to snobish know all my ego is bigger than house kind og people i really do not like fugly horse but she has a real good post called we have plenty of horses we need more riders....

Goatgirl · Advanced

I don't believe in those 'trainers challenges' - agree with barnfrog- they are horrid.

Imagine what those poor horses are going through - the stress -

Parelli is a brilliant self-marketer. A businessman more than anything - I think. There is a grain of truth in the philosphy most of these
natural horse 'trainers'/gurus go on about....

but there is no one right answer when it comes to horses - each horse is an individual that shares species specific characteristics with other horses - but even these characteristics are modified by each 'personality' the horse has....each horse teaches us something new - each human teacher gives us a new set of tools - be it what to do or not to do -- each day is different each horse is different each moment is different..

I've met horses who just get p.o'ed when you try to round pen them...so why pester them -find something else - that works with that animal..

Parelli got bucked off? - I'm not glad - I'm glad he wasn't injured - He got bucked off because he wasn't listening to the horse - because the horse was a 'prop' for his ego.
--- ohhhhhh welll
--poor horse -

darkhorserunning · Well Schooled

i love how you worded that true true and true.

dressagejumperdiva · Foal

You betcha!

dressagejumperdiva · Foal

sedonasilver wrote:
Oh and for the record, i wasnt calling people who dont use Parelli stupid. Quite the opposite - I meant the idiots who buy Parelli and suddenly think they're horse trainers without needing any further experience.

I agree..we had a lady who went and took a course with some trainer in BC, who (hangs head in guilt for saying so) has less experience than me, came back and started trying to tell me all these things that I already learned years ago, on my own and from my own trainer and I've moved on to new things. She went and bought a hot horse, then learned the hard way she didnt know as much as she thought she did and asked why I had hot horses :S Awkward situation.

FancyTrot · Yearling

I'd dump him too.

Abusive money hungry people the lot of them

Every video that shows 'Parelli' in a bad light will almost instantly be removed for copyright reasons.

The abuse Linda carried out on the blind Arab, any video regarding catwalk, the videos of Linda yet again abusing a (from my point of view, perfectly behaved, just very confused) young mare by repeatedly hitting her in the nose, PP taking part in one of those '10 minute breaking' scenarious with terrified mustangs, he failed at this also, a real horseman would NEVER take horses into a ring surrounded by people and claim he can work miracles and that all hang ups can be cured in a demonstration. All removed. Obviously they can see that they havn't got a clue and so make sure that they employ as many people as possible to delete all videos people find to keep their image rosy and sweet smelling.

I do trick training, Liberty horsemanship, and can do various, tricks, demonstrations, and partnership work that the Parelli bunch think is only possible by prodding horses into submission with an overpriced stick. Difference is. I can do mine without a halter I don't need my horse to be prodded into boredom or dragged around on a 'communication' line to play with me, mine is done at liberty, so that if I bore my horse to death, he can walk away and say go away you bore me.

Barbara F · Grand Prix

I don't know a lot about the Parellis, except I do know first-hand that they do have videos removed for "copyright" reasons. Must be exhausting searching the online world for any videos showing you in a bad light.

-- Edited by Barbara F on Tuesday 27th of September 2011 06:33:09 PM

barnfrog · Advanced

It was not PP who had them removed, it was the venue putting it on (as the sales are theirs, not PP).

Barbara F · Grand Prix

It was not the venue that contacted me.

Yakkittyyak · Yearling

(Regarding Laura F.'s video link;)

That cartoon video is too funny!! Tell me, PP doesn't REALLY advocate not trimming or grooming your horse, does he?? I hadn't heard about that. If that's the case, it's just waaaay too weird!

I quit listening after I visited a PP disciple about 15 years ago...and she was making the 'claw hand' and the 'porcupine' hand (okay, I don't actually remember, teehee, but it was something like that). I do remember laughing a lot on the way home, by myself! I'll just tack on here, I'm sure he has something to offer. There, I said it.

You know who I think is just great? Seriously great? John Lyons, at least the way he taught back in that era. His methods are SUPER, especially if you work a lot of young horses by yourself, which I do. With his beginning round pen work, you can have a horse responding perfectly to your body language, with NO ropes or halters or equipment. LOTS safer than a lot of other methods. The horses and the trainer both leave feeling better than when you started, and nobody gets hurt. You do need to give the method/horse your full concentration when you are doing it...no talking on your cell phone (snicker). It's not as easy as it looks, at least if you want to do it very well. My only problem is, if people see you do it, they want to know "What the secret is" and have you tell them in 20 words or less. When you try to explain that there is a LOT to it...they just think you are holding out on them. Sigh.

ALSO: Applause for the comments that say "One method will not necessarily work on all horses."

Wow, so true. Just about the time a person starts thinking they are smart, you have a "What the hell?" moment, and you look in your bags of tricks...and the bag's empty, and you turn the bag upside down and shake it...then you look around to see if anyone saw you with an empty bag...it's pretty funny, in retrospect.

-- Edited by Yakkittyyak on Monday 7th of November 2011 11:13:52 AM

-- Edited by Yakkittyyak on Monday 7th of November 2011 11:31:50 AM

deb · Well Schooled

barnfrog wrote:
The horse (remember ridden for about two hours total, if that) stated to do it for about three spins, and then he lost it and said 'get off!!!" (in a big way). I think to present a horse going from unhandled to ridden in two to three two hour periods (to the cheering masses of weekend ridrs) is HORRID. It is about as far from true horsemanship as we can get (no matter how clever the riders). Just mho.

I am pleased that you pointed this out, to me this attitude is about making money, not about the horse, teaching something is not about cramming, as someone who not only has taught anmials (horses, dogs, rabbits, cats and the list goes on) and a son with learning disablities -- homeschooled for his enitre life-- I can tell you that learning takes time ane repitition, and you are doing the horse no favours trying to make it learn something in a few hours that takes many days and even weeks to really get. I did not get the chance to see the video, but from reading about the event, I would say the horse was telling him something, and he was not listening.

deb mcdaid

tiocfaidh ar la stable

deb · Well Schooled

sedonasilver wrote:

I also know Parelli breakers who do a GREAT job with their horses, but of course, when you have a problem horse things get difficult and you have to get a bit creative and sometimes a bit 'mean'. Thats why every one has a sook when Pat Parelli gets tough on a horse - because its such a shock. They forget he's still a horse breaker.

Hi

I have no problem with most of what you have to say, can see your point on lots of it. But from someone who comes from a back ground of riding and racing I can tell you that the word 'mean' has me stopping cold. There are no excuses for being 'mean' -- that emotion is a reaction that tells me that a person has lost their cool, has anger towards what they are trying to teach, and is no longer teaching anything-- they are just punishing-- lack of patients, lack of kindness, lack of restraint, lack of communication are all ways that are counter productive-- as Parrelli found out when he landed on the ground. If you find yourself being 'mean' than you better think the situation over again. Mean handeling is rough handleling-- I have dealt with the fall out from this kind of handleling all of my life, stb people are amongst the meanest people alive with horses, and they think this is okay-- after all the horse does what they want after they beat it or man handle it into what they want-- or sort of or kind of or half way kind of does-- and if not, will send it to the local meat auction and then get another horse-- I have bought horses that were 'roped' to work with them, and they have scars both mental and physical, (riding horses), that never quite left them, although they were reworked and ended up productive and happy, I have had horses that were hobbled and they had ruined rear ends, and often ended up lame and mentally scared, and horses that were roped, and or tied down in good old wild west style because all that 'good feel good stuff that you girls practice just dosen't work-- and these horses were ruined, hurt, and scared, some for good some I could fix-- my best show horse was one of these-- the people felt that mean was the only way to work with him, he had scars on his ears and legs from being twitched and tied down, he was horrible to start, but in the end he was the best horse in the area, a 15.1 QH against top dressage horses, and then event horses-- and I was never mean and he was a rig, and I was only a 14 year old girl that showed the 'men' how to work with a rough horse--

On the same hand I do not let my horses run roughshod over me, I expect respect, and give as good as I get, I expect horses to listen to me, but listen to them, I never over face a horse, and always expect them to do the right thing, knowing that they are only living creatures that can make mistakes and am read for them. I have patients, and tollerance, and expect my horses to do the same. I am NEVER mean, I do not use abuse EVER, and it is my opinion that rough methods is another excuse for a lack of thought by the trainer, and lack of patients. While I do not personally follow anyone's 'method' I do not see a problem with those that do, everyone has to start somewhere. As long as the method is kind, understanding, does not use a abuse and will not bring harm to animal or person alike. I am not advocating that there is no place for firmness, or expectations from the human, just that mean equates cruelty or rough handling at best. In my opinion after over 30 years of working with horses and many years teaching riding, if a method works for both horse and rider, and is kind and causes no harm or danger, if each day you can look in the mirror and say I did no harm to the horse, than go ahead, but if words like mean, and rough come into your vocab, you need to look hard at your methods or anyone elses-- also if someone talks a good story, then roughs the horse up (PP???) than you best look at the reality of the situation, not at what he or others have to sell... and on the bright side, if some of his methods work for you, then go with them, if yo see something that isn't right, don't do it.

When I was a kid I had little money and that quarter horse I mention above. Badger was a horse that I should have had many, many hours of lessons to ride, but with not money I had to think up an alternative... my soltuion, watch to see where other people's problems were, know where I was going wrong, or what Badger's short commings were, and then watch other's in their lessons, use the arean mirrors to try and do what the coach suggested for the others. It worked-- proof, I beat 60 000 dressages horses with a 500 dollar horse that I trained myself... there are always solutions to ever problem, and you can mesh many peoples' ideas together and make them your own, so if you do like PP, but not some of his choices or methods take what you do like and go with it.

deb mcdaid

Tiocfaidh Ar La Stable

wink