Foal Behaviour in an Adult Horse

justice · Grand Prix

Foal Behaviour in an Adult Horse

Nikki Salo · Grand Prix

Hi Justice, I'm not sure if I can be of any help but I find your geldings situation to be very interesting. When I took Equine Behavior there was a gelding with a simliar behavior, but his ended within a few weeks. Here was his situation: he was 3 at the time, just came to the farm and would approach the other horses in his herd for about 2 weeks in the manner of a foal (or more so a suckling) -- lowered head, tilted to the side while chattering (clakking/clacking) his teeth with ears forward. He'd do this for a bit until he clued in that the other two geldings really didn't care and he'd go on his way either eating hay or grazing. He went out with these two other horses everyday and eventually got over it. We chalked it up to still being a baby, and using baby language.

I'm guessing that this mare is the lead of the group, and it could be possible (without putting human emotion onto a horse) that when you seperate them, he thinks that his way back into the herd is by expressing submission to the mare.

Was he ever bred, or gelded late? Stallions or former stallions will often chatter their teeth (sometimes in accordance with flehman, sometimes not), and it is mainly a processing of another horse's smell. When I worked at a facility that was standing 3 studs, sometimes to make mucking quick we'd transfer the stallion to an empty stall and they'd investigate and than process any smells regardless if the last horse in the stall was a mare or a gelding.

When it comes to stallions, obviouly their goal is to figure out which horse would be open to any approaches, but I don't think that is the only reason why a stallion, or another horse would chatter it's teeth and/or flehman but rather a processing of this horse smells like X, and X is my boss, but this horse smells like Y, and Y doesn't bite me/chase me away.

I don't think that I'd remove him from enjoying running/social time with the herd, unless he is actually being beat up by the other horses, which it doesn't sound like that is the issue at all. Or if the behavior progresses into lasting longer than usual than I would become concerned.

I'd chalk it down to a very submissive horse, or maybe he is just in love aww

justice · Grand Prix

He does not drop, just turns into a very large, really needy foal, even when with her. Not territourial or possessive of her in relation to the other boys, even her gelding (he's a GREAT little horse, but not the best gelding, won't commit to the mares, too independent and whimsical, little Imp....). She actually is NOT the lead tho would be if the current lead ever chose to relinquish or faltered in the position. Grey mare would "rather not", no matter what it is, other than eat, of course : )

All quite ideal until seperate time, which overall, is about 1/2 an hour, twice a day: just long enough for everybody to come in, eat, be groomed if necessary and checked over, have a few moments of no demands/ need for defense then back out for the day or night.

He LOVES his play time and engages with robust for LONG periods or as long as anyone will accomodate him. He plays well, too, not mean, careful with feet and teeth tho he is far from submissive, at least with the boys. HE spends more time as winner of the moment than all of the other boys added up. Circulates thru the herd, not exactly singling any one out, hangs happily with all who will take him, just mentally collapses over the grey mare when it's meal time.

I so wish I understood more of his language. It bothers me to see him so upset when *I* see no REAL justification (not saying it isn't there, just that *I* can't see it). I know I can help him put this in a better place and very much want to, just not sure how.

Thanks for responding, Nikki, good info, definitely helpful in trying to figure him out a bit : )

Think maybe his mum was a grey?

-- Edited by justice on Tuesday 22nd of March 2011 02:57:37 PM

justice · Grand Prix

Sorry to nag but.... no other speculations or epiphanyes? I am wondering what the behaviour of rejected foals would be as they mature, what type of management was offered, and what of a foal that is weaned either too early or if "too late" even is an issue. I am not breeding savvy beyond the obvious, 'specially of the early, developmental years, and really want to better understand my boy's anxiety over this mare. It is quite a dramatic event, to the point that I don't feel comfortable turning them all out together anymore, which midly distresses the others. It is quite a logistics adventure to get the boys contained so that the girls can get to the ring without them.

Also, I am quite interested in overall equine behaviour, perosnal pursuit of mine : )

Thanks again, for any and all insights, speculations, experience and advice! and for letting me nag : )

Jackie Cochran · Advanced

I can't think about anything Justice, UNLESS the mare looks like his mom or auntie. It is sort of sounding like your guy is having a flashback to foaldom.

I do remember around 20-30 years ago one book claiming that TBs grew bigger if they were taken from the mare early (2 or 3 months if I remember right) and fed super nutritious food. This would deprive the TB of several months of mothering and just might make it hard for them to react to mares correctly.

Maybe you need to find a "foster mother" mare, though you might get weird looks when you tell people its for a 20 yr old!

Jennifer Lamm · Yearling

Maybe he just feels comforted for some reason when she is near him... :) my horse is an orphan... he stick clacks his teeth if I get mad at him... he protects me from other people too and he frets over me if I leave him alone.... maybe he is just what I call an insecure horse, lacking a little in confidence and prefers to be near her.......

justice · Grand Prix

How frequently does clacking teeth in foal submissive attitude occur in an adult (he's 20...)? I don't know if this is common behaviour or not. The mare is grey, it is possible his mum was a grey, he is pretty close to black... I can't read his tatoo or I would track this down in other avenues. Kinda limited as to resources. Been very affectionate and a stellar ride the past few days, even without his B vits : )

Might have been easier if I had asked for just general impressions on orphaned, rejected and early weaned foals as I am not familiar with their behaviour patterns over the first two/three years of life. Beyond that I think it is common to attribute certain behaviours to training issues, accurate or not, and not be concerned with the circumstances surrounding a foal's first situation.

Thanks so much, ALL of you, for your time and effort on my pone's behalf : )