Unprofessional Professionals in the Horse World

Barbara F · Grand Prix

Unprofessional Professionals in the Horse World

darkhorserunning · Well Schooled

That sucks i always ask for referances, word of mouth gets interesting, i also like to see stuff that a person has done.

Jackie Cochran · Advanced

I remember long, long ago and far, far away that a blacksmith/trimmer that regularly lamed horses got a BAD REPUTATION awfully fast. Now there is this barefoot mania that seems to recommend crippling horses for months so that a "new" improved hoof will appear, and there are all sorts of promises about this "new" improved hoof. I have been riding a lot on barefoot horses for the last 40 years and I've had to educate a few farriers how to do it so my horses did not end up sore. You CAN get a new hoof from barefoot trimming, it takes around a year and weekly trimming to keep the toe down and the sole trimmed, and it can be quickly lost in around 2-3 months without the proper trimming.

I have had a lot of riding teachers claim that they could teach me, usually I end up teaching them if they would listen (not for long either, why pay top dollar when I end up teaching them?) My present teacher is wonderful and I can trust her, but it took me over 30 years to find her! She is worth the wait. I would even use her to train a horse of mine (if I could afford a horse now!), she is that good. She is worth every penny I pay her.

People believe in progress. They are always looking for something new that will give them a momentary advantage, no matter how much it harms their horses in the long term. Treeless saddles? People rode horses bareback at first and developed the treed saddle to protect their horses' backs. Horseshoes were developed to protect the hooves of horses worked 8 to 14 hours a day, every day. In no way are treed saddles or shoeing horses inherently abusive, you just have to do them right. But the propaganda now is that these useful methods are evil. Not so.

Some new things are very good (cross-under bitless bridles) but most of the other things are just new, and not necessarily good for the horse. And a LOT of training methods that people insist are new are actually taken from the old time horse tamers. They have been around for over a century and good horsemen quit using them (except for an emergency) for a reason!

Goatgirl · Advanced

gosh there are so many unproffessionals around in the horse world -- I too like the cross under bitless bridle - especially when working with beginners - it gives them a bit more control - without getting the horse in the mouth...and annoying the horse --

other than that - the whole barefoot trim - so many horses have been lamed by that - and the so-called natural horsemanship people popping up like fungi everywhere you look - (I'm not talking all-- but I do find the authentic horsewo/men in the 'natural-school' are just teaching common horse-sense....stuff most people who've been around horses for a long time come to know -- (mostly ranch/farm types who work with live-stock - cause it's just herdsmanship really)...

there's this product and that product --- all better than what was used or done before -- there's a reason things have survived for centuries - its' because it worked - perhaps it needs tweeking as we understand more...

or 'animal communicators' (I'm a firm believer in 'metaphysical' things ) but these people who claim to be able to speak with your horse - maybe some truly can who knows - but not the woman I was refered to by a very good friend. -- Yes I have egg all over my face here -- I hired a woman for $60Cdn to tell me what my horse wanted (my tb - I retired her at 15 because her back was so gimped- we think she must have flipped in the gate as a youngster - who knows - she'd be fine for awhile - we had chiropractors, saddle fitters massage therapists - and then she'd get sore - again -) anyway...I had a 'control question' I knew the mare had had a foal before I bought her - so I told the woman to ask if my mare had had a foal - the woman said 'she says no.' - the woman told me the mare wanted me to 'look to my own hooves' - and promptly suggested I have a potion of herbs made for myself for a 'nominal fee'...yep -- needless to say that cured me of ever wanting to 'chat' with my horses through someone again...I paid the woman and kicked myself all around the barn -- and took a lot of ribbing from my friends...

Oh and the woman did say my horse was willing to share some grass with me...yuppppp yupp yupp yup yup....I was a moron..

Jackie Cochran · Advanced

When I got back to riding and saw the saddles the stables had I decided to look into treeless saddles, since they were supposed to fit any horse. Well I looked and looked and looked. What saved me was that they were so UGLY compared to my ancient Crosby, and I saw no way I could get back on if I fell or had to get off. I also saw danger of me tipping to one side with disastrous results (I have poor balance.) When I read on one site that the horse's spine did not need clearance I decided that the wonderful people who invented and improved on the treed saddles knew what they were doing.

Besides M. Horace Hayes wrote that horses that are just ridden bareback develop callouses under the rider's seat bones which makes using a saddle difficult for the horse. I have read some stuff that seems to indicate that these callouses can also under treeless saddles.

I ended up using a Corrector pad and shim system under all my saddles. This is another new thing that seems to work. The horses, their owners, my riding teacher and I like the results. I am SO GLAD I did not fall for the treeless saddle propaganda, along with the barefoot trim (the crippling trim) and the various "Natural Horsemanships" going around.

The shoeless, treeless and Natural Horsemanship propaganda is very, very good. Tweaks horsepeople's heartstrings!

justice · Grand Prix

I wonder... The equine industry does not REQUIRE certification on all levels, in all places and for those that DO bother to go thru the channels of achievement it must be frustrating to have to deal with some of the "less accomplished". 'Specially when the "less accomplished" can produce better work and student relations than a credited one! (And this happens quite commonly). It often generates a territourial, defensive, competitive and corrupted attitude. Many people think, STILL, that the horse won't/can't tell on us if we short change them : )

-- Edited by justice on Saturday 14th of May 2011 06:48:50 AM

dbliron · Advanced

I second this opinion, Justice, along with Jackie's just above yours.

The horses always tell the tale, the unfortunate thing is that many of them are ruined before anyone pays attention.

Jackie: Hilary Clayton's done some VERY interesting research on treeless saddles and riding bareback, as opposed to riding in well-fitted dressage saddles. Both riding bareback and riding in a treeless saddle INCREASE pressure points in the horses' backs, whereas well-fitted dressage saddles spread pressue evenly. My personal issue with treeless saddles is that they can't be made to stay in quiet contact with the horse, they move all the time. Imagine how our feet would feel if our shoes did that when we work out?

Jackie Cochran · Advanced

I'm not surprised about the treeless saddles dbliron. It took me about a week of research to decide they were a bad idea for me!
Luckily I have an good old Crosby jumping saddle because I am not too sure about some of the modern inovations in English saddlery.

MagsNMe · Advanced

We had a farrier, once, who decided she knew better than two vets. My very foundered mare (28 degrees rotation), was recovering, slowly, and the vets agreed that taking 2 degrees off the heel would be appropriate. So, we tell the farrier to do this. Later, she tells us that she took 5 degrees (at least that's what she'd admit to), because, after all, she'd dealt with a mild case, and that's what they did, and it turned out just fine. She's lucky my mother was there, I'd have killed her. She no longer does any of my horses, of course, nor the horses of the vet involved, nor anyone that we can manage to ensure hears of the travesty....

Unfortunately there are lots of sorts that think they are god's gift to horses. I have an innate suspicion of the 'dentists' as well. My vet does my horses teeth. That's just me.

Nikki Salo · Grand Prix

Oh heck I could go into a huge rant here! I have a long list of "avoids". My best advice would be to see a finished product/s from a trainer, farrier etc. before investing your time, money and your horse's health.

To touch on the subject of barefoot trimmers that lame horses, there is a vast collection of traditional and non-traditional farriers that don't know the difference between a pasture trim and a barefoot trim, and this is where you will find a dead lame horse the majority of the time. Traditional farriers generally will give a horse a pasture trim if it is going to be off for a long period of time and the owner doesn't want to invest in keeping shoes on the horse and/or frequent trimming. So they trim the horse back as far as they can, which will lame a horse. Unfortunately with the barefoot "natural" craze, a lot of farriers jumped on this wagon to make a few more bucks, never actually learned how to trim a horse correctly to go barefoot and just give them a pasture trim resulting in a dead lame horse. Any trim or shoeing should not leave a horse lame or "off" unless their is a medical reasoning behind it, if your horse was sound before he was shod or trimmed, that is a heads up to the quality of farrier you have. Just my experience.

Queenrider · Advanced

The horse industry does seem to have more than its fare share of quacks. There are a lot of vets out there who are basically incompetent. One of the worse is still in practice after many years. She was employed at a large TB breeding farm (only because her sister was the manager I think) where I worked. They had a new stallion they were standing. She repeatedly checked the stallion's semen to ensure fertility. All the mares came up empty. The mare owners wanted their money back. She came to look at a foal with a knee the size of a football on it. She did not touch the foal or ask to see it walked. She took no x-rays. Her diagnosis was that this suckling foal had laminitis and we were to hose his coronary bands twice a day. She told a friend of mine that her gelding had navicular. This gelding was still winning hacks 10 years later. My neighbour called her to come and look at her donkey who was walking in circles. She looked over at the donkey in the stall saw it was circling and declared it had rabies and basically ran away. She reported this to the government. The federal vet put the donkey down and cut it s head off and sent it away for examination. The owners started rabies shot for themselves. The report came back negative for rabies. Another friend bought a new horse which she had done pre purchase exam. She said the horse was fine. The horse had lost all its muscle on both shoulders (called sweeney) and jumped in a strange and unsafe way with both front legs hanging down. My friend had to put the horse down.
There is BNT in the H/J world who has a list of lawsuits behind him.
There is a BNT in the eventing world who leaves a trail of unhappy clients and then moves on to another area to find new clients she can piss off and rip/off.
There is a BNT breeder/trainer in the pony world who does the same. The list goes on...

Geoffrey Pannell · Well Schooled

I think there are unprofessional practitioners in all walks of life. The best defence is to be informed and be prepared to ask questions, if they don't seem up to scratch then show them the door and tell then not to let it hit them on the bum on the way out!!!
IT'S a very small community around here ,so word gets out very fast if someone is not so good.

sedonasilver · Advanced

Breeders & stud owners....so many iresponsible breeders with far too many horses they cant afford to feed in the dry summer months - and stock which is very poorly bred. And will still try and rip you for every penny you have.

darkhorserunning · Well Schooled

i will add back yard breeders to list, they are banging out the fugly horses of the world i wish people would pick a breed and that is it as i am loving how the arabian, qh, painted, spotted app looks going threw the sale ring.... i would say do your home work and support only the reputable breeders causing the back yard breeders and over breeders to forced to come up to standard or at least improve thier standards.

i will also add when hiring anyone to do things to or with your horse including vets just plain do your homework, call other horse people near by and ask most are not shy and will set you straight.