So Flynn is now at probably his best weight, he could still gain a bit more but I need to work with his so it doesn't turn into fat. So I need a few pointers. The other day I *not in the smartest mind* used his halter and leadrope as a sort of makeshift hackamore. Surprizingly he doesn't seem to mind being sat on or even saddled when we do so I can lunge him. None the less he responded to the whatever it was I made very well until it unlooped out of the other side. He then knew I had no control, and well he headed right towards his pasture. Luckily I got off *I am not super used to bareback*. Now I do need to get his teeth floated *saving up the money for that cause its not super cheap down here in FL (the travel fee for the vet costs around 100$ alone)* but in the meantime I was going to work with him on his ground manners again.
So to my question. I did use a bit on him once (the people I barn with rode him twice with a tom thumb *which I despise*) and I only rode him with a grazing bit for less than 5 mins. Until I get his teeth floated and wolf teeth removed, I cannot be sure but he doesnt seem to respond to the grazing bit well, throws his head and gets mad. Once I get his teeth done I was thinking of putting him in a O ring snaffle and retrain him so I dont have to use a harsher bit and succumb to the "hard mouth" issue thats just a vicious cycle of harsher bit after harsher bit.
It looks like Flynn is coming along nicely in your photo, he is very lovely looking!
As for a bit, it sounds like he may be having a fuss because his teeth aren't done and you'll better know after he is floated and the vet has had a look around in his mouth. Once you have that out of the way, I would personally start with a plain snaffle, I prefer a D ring, but if you're going with an O/loose ring I would get some bit guards just to avoid pinching. I would get him used to just wearing the bit with the headstall (you can put the halter over the headstall without reins and use the halter for lunging while he is wearing the headstall and bit). I always start in a simple snaffle and find that if I do the ground work on getting the horse to give to gentle pressure/flexing in the snaffle that you won't need a harsher bit in most cases.
I hope this helps, keep us updated!
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Courage is being scared to death but saddling up anyway. - John Wayne
I realloldy enjoyed the idea and read on quite a few of the articles. Thank you so much Queen Rider
I def took your advice Nikki. I used a loose O ring with bit gaurds and a slit one ear head stall... this is going to be a long way for training. I don't ever think he has had a jointed bit in his mouth and if it was it was a Tom Thumb. He only seems to listen to a grazing bit... so using the o ring was apparently funny to him. All I can summerize is he is use to leverage bits not snaffles.
On the plus side he doesn't mind weight on him. Stands completely still and as I said is willing to learn.
The minus side is for some reason he won't lunge with me. This goober gives me such a hassle and now when I do get him to he kicks out at me...I can't seen to quell this habit. I do not have a round pen or area to work him in other than the other pasture.
If Flynn does not like jointed snaffle you can try a Kimberwick bit. I have successfully used the Kimberwick on horses trained to a curb and I have had no problems changing the horses to it, the horses feel the mouthpiece which is like the mouthpiece of the curb, and they feel the curb chain so it feels familiar to them, and yet it is a MUCH softer bit than either a grazing curb of a jointed snaffle. You can ride with it just like you have a snaffle in the mouth, direct reining and all.
I am def going to look into a Kimberwick. What about a Uxeter?
Any tips on this random kicking phase towards my head he has. I think maybe he feels I am a push over, mainly because I do not get to see him often (I work two jobs) and he must think he can play with me. That or I have not established with him I am a confident leader, but I do not feel overly confident when I have to deal with his kicking out at me and literally when I go to lunge him he refuses. Even when I use a lunge whip *not on him of course*. He just has no interest. He has lunged great previously and now just wants to follow me around and do nothing (which is a no go because he needs to tone up his muscles) I have tried teaching him to lead in hand but he refuses to move when I am at his shoulder/chest. Or even at his head. I have to give him a nice little tug propelling forwards or else he doesn't move.
I am pretty sure he is used to be a pasture ornament now and I feel helpless to change this fact. I will mention btw that he responded somewhat to a rubber straight bit but not to the O ring. maybe I need to hook it up over the cavasson. Last time I lunged him when he listened it was with a bit. (funny how he didn't respond to the O ring but he knew it was business and slightly lowered his head and just stood waiting for whatever would happen next.)
An Uxeter is probably fine, I have not used one myself since I think the regular Kimberwick has a better release, but at the stage you and your guy are at I do not think that will matter at all. With the Uxeter you can experiment with two strengths of signal, the direct pull like a snaffle (top rein loop) and a very, very mild curb action using the bottom rein loop.
I have been using the Ttouch methods myself after coming to a loooong time of no progress. The method has ground work methods that may help you teach him, and the Ttouch circles have given me amazing results with attitude and relieving pains that the horse may have. If he wants to "play" the groundwork will probably help (I'm too weak to move poles so I've never done it).
I have gotten to the point that now I consider kicking high while lunging as an attempt by the horse to give himself a chiropractic adjustment to his back, probably mostly to the sacro-iliac joint. You might want to ask around to see if there is an equine chiropractor around you. In the meanwhile doing the Ttouch circles and ground work methods you will end up with a MUCH better handle with your horse, your personal relationship with your horse may also improve A LOT, and they may help the horse's physical pain. These methods seem to help form the correct neuronal connections in the horse's brain for doing what we humans want them to do and to get them to use the more reasoning part of their brains.
I got my first horse (green-broke Anglo-Arab, me an elementary level rider) and managed to improve him while riding only on the weekends. Since he was turned out in the pasture 24/7 I did not have to deal with explosiveness. Of course he was an angel from heaven, but even so I learned that so long you are training correctly doing it just on the weekends does not slow you down that much. Right now I ride some horses just 30 minutes a week and they still show progress. Since I did not show I don't have to deal with any deadlines. Having a deadline can be the quickest way to end all progress in training if you don't have lots of experience. People can get too rushed, confuse the horse, and both end up unhappy. The quickest way to teach a horse something is to start out with the attitude that you have all the time in the world, even to the end of the universe.
There seems to be an issue with your videos - they are set to private (and they are mobile links, which from a desktop I can't seem to view). Try posting the links from a desktop if you have a chance; I would love to see your videos!
A bit of general advice I'd like to give if you'd like to read it :)
I agree with Nikki about Flynn's teeth being more of a cause of potential issues than the bit itself. I am guessing by now he has had his teeth done - if not, we will see what happens once they are done! My advice for bitting a horse is this: I also prefer a plain snaffle with D-rings, or O-rings with bit guards. For a headstall I really prefer to use something with a throatlatch, as something with just a browband or ears can slide off and become a safety issue. With a throatlatch (even set loosely), the likelihood of your headstall coming off, the bit slipping through his mouth, and so on, becomes very slim! Something to consider. :)
For a horse that wants to be a lazy pasture ornament, my personal approach is to really get their energy up. You don't have to hit a horse for it to know you mean business, but for a lazy horse, you have to be stern and know exactly what you want, as well as being two steps ahead at all times, anticipating what he/she may do to try to get out of something. For example, a horse that refuses to move for me on a lead line, I will take a rope or a lunge whip (even a dressage whip) and repeatedly swing it at their front feet, their hip, their shoulder, etc, until I get their feet moving in any direction. As soon as the horse's feet move at all, I stop and praise them. "Approach and retreat" some folks like to call it. Once you have the horse moving (it may be easier to try to move the hindquarter around while tipping the head in towards you, so the center of gravity is somewhat off, and they can't really "grow roots"), focus on really keeping their feet moving, especially when you ask for them to lead somewhere and they refuse. Heighten the energy level so they know you aren't dead in the water and that you really mean what you're asking. A lazy horse knows it can get away with being lazy, so if you take away the option of them not expending any energy during a training session, they only have the option to do what you ask. "Make the wrong thing hard and the right thing easy," so-to-speak.
What I'm getting at here is simple, and please forgive my rambling/thinking out-loud approach: If you ask him to move forward and he plants his feet, make him move somewhere.. anywhere, as long as his feet get moving. Ask again - if he refuses, make him work again. He will quickly decided that just moving forward is a lot easier than spinning in circles over and over, or backing up for 10-20ft at a time. Be stern, even "aggressive" in your approach, but always be kind, and remember that no one benefits from anger. Always remain calm, even if you may become frustrated. Horses sense when a person is frustrated and will often times match that energy. Remain calm and sure of yourself and what you are asking.
Please forgive my rambling.. I hope somewhere in there, something was of use. :) I look forward to seeing what you two are up to in the near future!
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Riding a horse is not a gentle hobby, to be picked up and laid down like a game of Solitaire. It is a grand passion. - Ralph Waldo Emerson
Thank you Brownmouser Ash. I def see what your saying. Usually when he refuses I do swing the lead rope, just usually in a helicopter motion at my hip. Vut yeah I will definitely be giving your advice a shot. And I think the links are fixed now.
Groundwork didn't seem to work well with him. After the rains hit hard he was stalled, to prevent thrush.. alas he would kick out the door or jump out. (??? How ) he is now in the pasture with all the other horses. anyhoo the groundwork did not seem to do anything for him.
so two days ago when I was out visiting him I look him in the face and said we are going to do this. I saddled him up and after having someone lead us around for a moment I put in his Kimberwick bit and we rode. I rode today and his issue is I feel he might be buddy sour. And also he likes to test me by threatening to buck. as I said I cannot really get him to lunge. but when I click to him he does walk. He is relearning woah. But helikes tobolt If he canters and then dead stop and threatens to buck. I respond byturning him in a circle and walking. My issue /question is how would I train trot?